If He Did It To Her......

Hello, Moxie!  Ok, so here's my story.  I wouldn't be with my guy if I hadn't made the first move.  He was on a date with his current "thing" many, many moons ago.  He seemed to not want to be with her, and he chatted with me a few times and seemed interested in me.  My gut was telling me to go for it.  Usually I'm the type to let the guy make the first move, yet for some reason, on that night, I felt I absolutely HAD to let him know. 

Hmmm, how to do it with a drunken woman slobbering all over him costantly?  I asked for his business card, got his mobile number and sent him a text message:  "I'm interested if you are."  Ten minutes later he approached me and I asked him if he'd gotten my text.  He said no because he didn't have that phone with him.  I discreetly showed him the message I'd sent.  He looked around, gave me a sideways flirtatious look, and said, "Gimme your number," and I did.  We exchanged text messages for the rest of the night until 5am...at the bar, on the way home, etc. etc. etc.

Point is, I am 38 years old.  I knew what I wanted and I went for it, without wasting any time.  He wanted me, but couldn't approach me.  We've been together and happy ever since.

Mae West once said, "He who hesitates is a damn fool."  Go for it, Mox. - Been There Done That

Okay. I can appreciate the sentiment here. But, to be honest, I don't think i could ever trust a guy whom I met while he was out on a date with someone else. Am I the only one who feels that way?

I'd also worry that I would come across as...I'm gonna say it...desperate or too aggressive if I sent him a text within hours of meeting him. And, personally, I find it really, really scummy that this guy is out with another woman and texting you. Look, it works for you and that's great....but I wouldn't want to be in your shoes because if he did it to her, he'll do it to you. I know, I know..nothing ventured, nothign gained. But what was gained here? The guy she got didn't have enough respect for his date (and I don't care if it was a first date or 10th date) to just shut his fucking phone off on a date? That alone annoys me. If I were out with someone, even if it were a female friend, and they're texting on their cell phone all night? I'd be pissed. As my Dad says, show me what a person has done and I'll tell you what they'll do.

I keep hearing people say that they've become more brazen with age. Is it that they've become more ballsy...or just more desperate? Because I think there will be tons of women who reply to this post and say "You go , Girl!" but I also know there will be women who say that they don't agree with what you did.  I don't know. As much as I would like to give you a virtual high-five, something about this story..from the way you met to the message you sent...feels really bad to me. I hate that I'm being judgmental here and I know that I am but, being 38 myself, I just hate to see that that's what we have to resort to to get a guy.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Comments

[Deb]

How you get a guy is how you lose him.

I met my exboyfriend at a wedding where he was with his girlfriend.
Yeah, I went for it, had a gut feeling that I had to go for it as well.
Fast forward, 8 months later, he met another girl while he was still with me.

[Bigreader]

Moxie, I'm with you and Deb on this one. I first met my ex ex while on a date, (we were both with other people at the time). Six months later I got dumped, also while on a date with Mr. Wonderful. IMHO, leopards don't change their spots, and neither do players.

[Blue]

it was a low day for you to go after this guy in that way, sorry but he is telling you point blank that he has no respect for you or the woman he was with. And if you two hook up, he will treat you the way he has met you, as a quicky on the side.

[Rick]

Hmmm, two edged sword here! As moxie suggest, certainly a red flag shown by the lack of class exhibited from the subject male. And yes, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. Okay, it worked for you! (That is, as far as you know?) So, congrats!

As a male, I will offer that women today, are generally more aggressive than at any time in my long memory. Certainly, a good thing for the predatory species on both sides, but a challenge for the more "self appreciating" of females. (Not, so much, for a man. We've sold our souls so many times - just to get a "little" - that taking personal inventory becomes more of an inconvenience.)

With so many of you choosing to sink to our level, a backlash, of sorts, has been created. The more desirable of men - at first glance, anyway - no longer have a reason to get married, or to limit themselves to a committed relationship. Unless they are ready to make babies... mistakenly, meet someone they don't want to lose, or (Ahem) actually fall in love.

That being said, if you play too hard to get, in this day and age, you won't get got? As you know, we men don't think with our big head, so we tend to make shortsighted decisions regarding women; as evidenced by the ever increasing divorce rate. And just as apparent from reading all the confusion from so many of the female contributors to this Blog.

The answer, for most, is somewhere in between. If you don't know how to bait the hook, don't be surprised if we choose to violate the large-mouth-bass that jumped in to the boat (...and with little effort on our part.) Men are simple creatures... we're hungry... were horny... were thirsty. (And the order of importance is constantly shuffling.) Play upon these weaknesses, and we'll go along with most anything! You ladies have witnessed it and upon doing so, just shook your heads (...or wrote in!) Quit tilting against windmills, and find a way to work it that fits your own boundaries. You might be able to modify some of our behavior, but to battle millennia of genetics, is foolish.

That being said, a woman who makes me think there's a chance (...using the writers scenario) perhaps, by discreetly slipping me a card and a smile, as she walks away. Has definitely captured my attention, and will get a follow-up from me, even if she is quite average in appearance. (Ask any man, whose more fun in bed?) There is no correlation between looks and sexuality, but "average" seems to enjoy themselves, so much more! Of course, that doesn't mean I won't consider bedding the woman who placed her hand in my trouser pocket to size-up... what kind of car I drive? :)

Let's be honest... many of you will immediately bed the "bad boy," and hold out for the "catch..." Well, we operate under (somewhat) similar conditions, as well! Which, unfair as it is, may explain why it so often works for you?

Warning: Consistent behaviors are never guaranteed. Your results may vary. If you are having an emergency, please... hang-up, and dial 911.

Rick

[Quinn]

Hasn't this desperate 38 year old ever heard of the old saying "what goes around comes around?" I mean, fine, go ahead and stoop so low as to hit on a guy when he is on a date with someone else. But then do not be upset when another woman successfully lures him away from you when you are out with him.

I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no class. Texting for all hours of the night might be acceptable for someone in high school, but someone pushing 40...FORTY?!!

But you don't give a damn cause you're the type of person that uses Mae West quotes to justify behavior that is generally considered cold, rude and desperate. I hope you find yourself on the other end of the game one day; I'm sure the woman KNEW what you were doing. But perhaps her drunken state of mind softened what would have otherwise been a crushing and embarrassing blow to her self-esteem. Sadly, her drunkenness probably kept her from giving you the ass-kicking that you deserved.

If I sound harsh, its because I have no tolerance for these types of women. No wonder she's 38 and still single. She sounds like a prime, 100% grade A bitch.

[Trixie]

Rick, that was hilarious!

I tend to go after what I want to a certain extent, being very outgoing, self-confident and aware of my attractivess to men. However, I use tact and discretion. I think Been There Done That lacked both in her scenario. I also think she feels she has somehow won a prize by taking him from a drunken, slobbering woman. I would question him, when I finally contacted him a few days after, about why he was out with someone he obviously didn't like that much. I mean we all have had dates from hell. But she indicated that was his "thing". That would be a red flag for me, too. The way she handled it all portrays her as a women with some issues.

Come on, you are 38 and texting at a bar?! That is a real immature. And desperate, just as Moxie put it. I would have taken the card if I thought the guy was all that- but that would have been the end of it that night. I mean, really, how does that look to a man to keep texting him when you know he's out with someone? You are probably the type to sleep with your friends' men. You lack some serious boundaries and you don't respect others' boundaries. I can't stand women like you. You go after men with women to get validation because you feel so damn insecure. But your man is a playa, anyway, sweetie.

[spleen]

Let's not talk about him, let's talk about YOU, you are nothing but a cheap slut who doesn't care about the damage she does in order to 'get a guy'. He's probably already cheating on you, and guess what? You deserve it...

Be it "long-term" or "short-term" for Been There Done That's relationship with this guy, the whole point is "she has got the man" from telling the man what she wants even if it is from under another women's nose! It may not be right to you folks but does not change the fact that she has the guy from her asking.

So what if it will last for only a day or for 10 years (even if he will do the same to her as that last date)?
You (the disapproving party) only wishes it will be "short term" just because it is not your way (that she bag the guy because she has guts and you don't)?

Can anyone tell if their relationship with their men is going to last a day or 10 years (or however long) from the different ways you "get together" a.k.a. "hook-up"?
I don't think anyone can predict any future, not for Been There Done That or for a woman waits for the man to make the move.

If you all cannot predict the end of anyone's relationship (how-ever you get there and the whole point is getting there "in a relationship"), how can anyone say she is so wrong and you (the disapproving party)are so right???

If you women are these great mind readers/able to predict outcomes, why are you all still so confused as to "when" best to approach men, if to approach men or not? Why all these questions when you should have them already all answered?

The women aren't men and can't think like them as are the differences of all individuals even from case to case, people to people.

Why and how is Been There Done That wrong? For all you may know, he/she(or both) may have only till the next day on earth and them both could be given at least that chance to know each other for better or worse... they could be each other's last love (if that).

Many times, it is not even the human factor, but the time.
When the time is right, for that golden moment!

Another thing, since you guys aren't her man (really don't even know if he is a legit player or what that date is "she could be a married lady out to play") could you, should you judge the case as you do?

Even a player has a heart, may sometimes melt for the right women, but you women will never know till that chance is taken.

[Rock]

I could be wrong but, isn't this post from the lady that wanted to give her bf a threesome for his b-day?

Anyway, this screams desperation but, to each his own.
If the guy contacts you for something other then sex, i hope you aren't mad with some girl walking out with him.
And just how the hell do you know he wasn't that into the chick he was with? Whether you like it or not, she got the date while you're just ass. Shit is, you're probably more then happy with that.

[hb]

If they are both happy and content, then I don't see the problem. It's not like the guy was married or that was his girlfriend.

"Been there done that" took the initiative and that worked for her. Maybe they are both a little bit players and it works for them.

The other side of the coin are the cautionary tales by Deb and Bigreader.

[VJ]

Again my pet peeve, Reading comprehension comes into play here. 1.) He Did Not have his phone (mobile) with him (or on) at first, and then went back to either get it, or use another one. So it initially Was off. Until the flirt was On. 2.) BTDT did not do this within hours of first meeting her 'mark', but Minutes. My summary & impressions of events are:

1.) Hey I've seen baboons & chimps doing the same thing! (On films). The ape does not fall far from the tree.

2.) A completely plausible series of events, with many possible outcomes, and some of the mutually beneficial too.

3.) Why are we still shocked to hear that women can do this too? Why are we still surprised to hear that it can and still does 'work' quite effectively as intended?

4.) Yeah, yeah, she's a 'slut' and all. But she may very well have achieved everything she wanted for the next few months, which is the attention of her 'Mr. Thing'. For someone at 38 or even almost any age, this is an accomplishment, especially if you can do this on the fly in little bitty snatches (forgive me) of texts. Why presage or judge her needs, wants and desires here? She may have only wanted a 'short term deal'.

5.) Short term Can beget long term, but only if the parties continue to be happy with their end of the deal in the relationship. This changes in time and with maturity. Anything past 7-10 years and you enter the lucky stage. In a LTR, anything past 2-3 years of any description is the same. For a guys, 2 weeks of steady action is always a plus. He may not want to see much beyond that, and in point of fact, may not need to.

6.) She's a braggart & proud of it. Trust issues or not, she likes where she landed on the deal, and wants to tell everyone about it.

7.) In a darkened room with your BF, I'd not be betting against her. Even at age 50 perhaps.

8.) She's probably not going to develop into one of those 'reserved women' anytime soon.

9.) If she's able & willing, she's likely to push her luck to the envelope soon by doing something else drastic to or with her 'Mr. Thing' that will deliberately try and destabilize their relationship.

10.) It's a gaming thing here, and she still thinks she's on a winning streak. No one will be able to tell her otherwise, perhaps not until overwhelming facts convince her otherwise.

That's all I've got. The films are funnier actually! Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

[VJ]

This should now read: "2.) A completely plausible series of events, with many possible outcomes, and some of them mutually beneficial too". Sorry for any confusion. Cheers, 'VJ'

[Craig]

Everyone who reads this blog regularly knows I'm an advocate of women taking some initiative and going after what they want instead of just having to choose from what happens to come to them. That said, in this particular instance it would have been nice to go after someone not already taken. But to each his own I suppose. Moxie says that she hates to see women having to resort to being the pursuer to get a guy. I say resorting to that to get a guy beats not having a guy at all. Thus to all women who oppose such tactics, I'll end my thoughts with one of Moxie's favorite sayings: "Do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy?"

[Steve from the City Next Door]

I think Moxie is right on here. I mean, maybe this is the 1 in 1000 that works.

I did think of one other thing...I think 50% of the time I have been asked out by a woman is when I have clearly been out on a date with another one (and usually one that is not going well). I have never taken any of them up on it...maybe that was a mistake.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Ok. I didn't say everything in this comment that magically became a post. I have known the guy for 4 years, casually. I've been friends with his business partner for over a year, and have seen him around in our community many times over the years. I knew the guy through his friend, I knew what kind of person he is. He is well-liked in my community. He is, in short, a good guy. This was not a sudden meeting, nor was it the first time I'd ever talked to him. And I also know the girl he was with at the time.

She has a drinking problem and every time I've ever seen her in public, she is drunk as a skunk. I don't mind having a couple beers (I'm a beer girl, myself), but getting blitzed all the time is a turn-off, even for the horniest of men, don't you think?

VJ, he has TWO mobile phones service providers. When I saw him that night, he did NOT have one of them with him, the one listed on his business card. So, he could not have received the message I sent him.

LOL, VJ, I come from an abusive marriage, and yes, I feel very happy and lucky to have found a man who treats me with respect. I deserve it. I'm going to brag about my good luck. And as far as pushing my luck? Hmmm, like I said in my original comment, I'm not one of those women who are overly aggresive. He and I have already been through a difficult time. I was patient throughout the whole thing, didn't nag him about stuff, but I certainly didn't let him walk all over me. I learned from past mistakes, and the outcome was that we got over the bad stuff and ended up much better than before. Today, I couldn't be happier.

Another thing many of you out there don't know....but I am DEAF. My boyfriend is DEAF. Texting is the best way to communicate in a DARK BAR. Nothing immature about it, thank you. So before you jump to conclusions (oh how immature!) make sure you have all the facts.

As for Quinn and Spleen, and all those others who call me a slut. Hey, I don't care. Call me whatever you want. I've been through a lot in my life, I've lost a lot of things, but I have never cheated on a man or broken up a relationship. Remember, he was on a "date" with a woman, it was not a girlfriend. Major difference. He was clearly not happy with the girl, was pushing her off of him, running away from her while she was chasing him around the bar sobbing why he doesn't want her. SHe was shoving her hands down his pants while he was trying to get her off. Hello? What relationship was there to break up?

I do look at his past behavior. He was married for over a decade, was a dedicated husband until she left him "I want a man who isn't deaf," he is an amazing father and every time I see him with his kids, I get a catch in my throat because he clearly is devoted to each of them.

Past behavior? Pushing the envelope? Until you all know me and know my relationship, you can't judge me, and Moxie, that goes for you, too.

[isabella snow]

Got a man this way. Didn't lose him this way - ending up ending it myself cos I couldn't take the constant paranoia that he might do the same thing to me.

Bad karma, dude.

[Lexy]

BTDT,
I purposely held off from commenting because it seemed like there WAS more to that story. Good for you that you found a good man, and I am glad you didn't go for the 3-some. You guys seem fine on your own...

[Moxie]

"She has a drinking problem and every time I've ever seen her in public, she is drunk as a skunk. I don't mind having a couple beers (I'm a beer girl, myself), but getting blitzed all the time is a turn-off, even for the horniest of men, don't you think? "

So, by your logic, because she's a drunk she doesn't deserve a "good" man? Gotcha. I'm sorry, but that little tid bit make syou sound even more dispicable. So, you basically took advantage of the slobbering drunk girl. Congrats. You must be so proud of yourself.

"I feel very happy and lucky to have found a man who treats me with respect."

....Imean, if she treats other women disrespectfully, that's not her problem, right?

"Major difference. He was clearly not happy with the girl, was pushing her off of him, running away from her while she was chasing him around the bar sobbing why he doesn't want her. SHe was shoving her hands down his pants while he was trying to get her off. Hello? What relationship was there to break up? "

Oh. I see. You were "saving"? him and therefore your behavior was justified while she acted like a pathetic mess. Honey, you both acted pathetic. You just weren't drooling. See a pattern?

[BeenThereDoneThat]

LOL, Moxie I am laughing so hard. Wow, talk about bitterness. I'm absolutely shocked. I only offered you advice on how to get what you want. Obviously you can give advice, but you can't take it, nor do you seem able to accept the fact that WE are happy. No need for the catty jealousy. I'm not justifying anything, simply explaining. In fact, I KNEW you would say I was justifying my behavior, etc. Typical female jealous response to a simple explanantion of events that occurred.

No other explanations needed. I'm happy, he's happy, the kids are happy. End of story.

(Bows) Thank you, thank you very much....

[BeenThereDoneThat]

And thanks Lexy, one of the few people in here who aren't acting like I committed a major crime in going after a good man.

Moxie your last comment made little to no sense.

It is clear that you mischaracterized an event based on a comment, to make an interesting post. There certainly was a good chance you were right in your interpretation. But she has clarified, and it is clear you were wrong. Don't be so petty that you can't admit that.

Also, it is HILARIOUS that you would call her pathetic.
1. You have been the other women before. Your justifications for it make no sense. How can you critisize her if you have helped other people cheat on girlfriends...here it was just a date.
2. Did you engage in some crazy/stalker type texting and behavior a few months ago? But you think you are in any position to be so judgemental?
your blog is very interesting and I wish you well in your business, but chill on the bitter/craziness

Sara

I'm having a hard time understanding how this man couldn't control the drunk woman. Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to take her home and drop her off instead of letting her make a public fool of herself? How did she get away with running around a bar crying and stuffing her hands in his pants?

[Alison]

I consider asking the man who was on a date with someone else and texting him a proposition like "I'm interested if you are" overly aggressive.

BTDT-

If you knew him casually for so long and had mutual friends then why not wait until he wasn't on a date to ask him out? What took him so long to ask you out if you two are so perfect for each other?

[BeenThereDoneThat]

We were both married, that's why I never made a move on him before. I don't make moves on married men, even if I find them attractive and interesting.

The other person who commented as to why he couldn't or wouldn't control the girl he was with, he did end up taking her home and putting her to bed after a while. :-) I never said she was a bad person, just that she drinks too much.

Thank you Sara, for calling Moxie on her senseless post. It was a reactionary comment, poorly thought out, and driven by emotion and not logic.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Also, he was told I was in a relationship with someone else which was not true. So, if I had waited for him, I would have been waiting for quite a while. And at the time, I figured, why not go for it now? I don't regret it one bit, and I am actually friendly with the girl he was out with now.

[Lexy]

I think that was a cute text, not too aggressive, and leaving the door open for whatever response. Geez, as much of a "rules" girl that I am, I really think you people need to lighten up.

[b]

"Despicable" is an awfully strong word, and not warranted in this case. Since the people involved all knew each other already, it changes everything. If they were just strangers in a bar, I doubt BTDT would have been so bold/aggessive, and I doubt the man in question would have given her so much of his attention that night. Instead it sounds like a story where two fine people finally got together, amidst a bit of unfortunate drama. Score one for love. :)

[Rick]

She's got her hands in my pants... I'm flirting in sign language and texting with one hand, while trying to get her off with the other hand (...there's a visual!) No wonder you went after him? A man this good with his hands is quite a catch!

Next time, why not tell the WHOLE story? That may diffuse some who like to go for the juggler, and keep opinions to a more general and less personal vein. But, then, you like to stir it up, don't you?

Now, how do I sign... Ignorant Slut? :) (With apologies to Chevy Chase)

[Moxie]

Rick, he wasn't trying to "get her off" in the sexual sense. He was trying to get her off OF HIM.

"Also, it is HILARIOUS that you would call her pathetic.
1. You have been the other women before. Your justifications for it make no sense. How can you critisize her if you have helped other people cheat on girlfriends...here it was just a date.
2. Did you engage in some crazy/stalker type texting and behavior a few months ago? But you think you are in any position to be so judgemental?
your blog is very interesting and I wish you well in your business, but chill on the bitter/craziness"

Right. And in both instances I believe I called my own behavior "desperate" and/or "psycho." So...your point,"Sara?"

"Wow, talk about bitterness."

Wow. Talk about using a tired stereotype to describe another woman who doesn't like or agree with you. Sometimes, Been There, it's got nothing to do with not liking you and everythign to do with not liking your behavior. I won't apologize for thinking this whole story is gross and maybe even implies you've got your own issues with other women. You could have just given him your card and left. Or contacted another day since you have friends in common. No. You waited until he was with another woman. Look, you want to make the first move? Great. But the manner in which you did it is what offends me. The woman he was out with clearly had her own issues. There's no need to add to them by you and he humiliating her any more than she humiliated herself. I also won't apologize for finding a man who would engage in this highly suspect with little to no respect for women. Of course his divorce was his wife's fault. Of course she was a whiny, needy complainer. Takes two to tango, dear. Especially if they have kids and had a reasonbly, for this day and age, long marriage.

[kemit]

"rick", i have found the opinions here are rarely every general and almost never impersonal.

i don't know "been there done that" or the guy she's seeing and wasn't there that night. it just seems to me that what rubs moxie and/or some people the wrong way in regards to assertive women is the underlying fear of rejection and the insecurity of not knowing how to keep it together if someone does reject her advances.

if i understand her correctly, it's the guy's 'job' to show interest simply because the woman bothered to look decent - never mind that the guy probably went through the same 'what am i gonna wear?' thing too - and keeps batting her eyelashes and smiling demurely - never mind that such subtle moves will hardly be noticed in a crowded bar/club with poor lighting and throngs of people about.

secondly, should both parties actually manage to communicate and set up a date, it's the woman's 'job' to not be "too available" and leave suddenly (even though she's having a good time) because if she stays she's bound to get caught up by and intoxicated with the romance of the date.

to me, all of this 'well, if you're really that into me you'd come over here and chat me up' (a strategy that can be played by both genuinely interested parties) add up to one party not knowing how to comport themselves if they're rejected.

i don't mean to imply that there's no such thing as acting desperate, but there's also such a thing as acting assertive when you tire of the 'no, you first' shtick because you're confident/careless enough not to give a damn if someone rejects you. just as you probably don't categorize a relationship as long term before it has even begun. "been there done that" seems awfully eager to convince and justify the happiness of her relationship - something that's entirely her prerogative. the point seems to be that no matter how both parties acted, she claims that now they're together and happy. ultimately, i gather that that was her point.

[Amy]

I am curious about something - when someone makes a comment on this site, presumably as part of an ongoing conversation about another post, NOT as a question, asking for advice, is that person asked for permission when his/her comment is them moved to be a main post later on?
What concerns me here - if I understand the history correctly - is that BTDT posted a comment in response to another post, giving her experience as part of a larger conversation.
Then somehow her comment became a post, and now there are all these people analyzing/criticizing her in a way she probably never asked for nor expected.
Is it this blog's policy that any comment can be used any way the administrator chooses or is the original commenter contacted first?

[Moxie]

Yes, it is. Because regardless of making it into a post or leaving it as a comment, BTDT still willing opened herself up to scrutiny.

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Moxie, you have no idea the kind of person I am, what I do for a living, how I feel about things, what my relationship is like with my man. As far as I can tell, it's been a REALLY LONG TIME since you've had a sustained, mature, committed relationship with anyone. It seems you have your own issues, judging by some of your posts/comments.

That night, when I sent him that text message, I asked a couple of people who knew him, "Should I let him know I'm interested, or should I wait?" The resounding consensus was (100%) hell, go for it, why not? I thought about it some more, not wanting to cause any trouble for him, but then I decided to go for it. Yes, I could have waited, you're right, but I didn't and I won't apologize for it, either. No one who knows us has ever said what I did was wrong, and some of my friends are brutally honest and have no problem telling me like it is. Therefore, you won't get a shrinking violet answer out of me.

And some of your reasoning, indeed, makes no sense whatsoever, based on your previous posts and advice. The "leave in the middle of a date that's going well" advice is the dumbest, lamest bulls--t I have ever come across in my life.

There are three little children in my life now that wouldn't be in it before and for that I'm truly thankful. I have a man who loves me, I have three little girls in my life now who love me, and I love them all, very, very much. Yes, it's a veritable love fest out here. How can that be despicable?

You may not have liked my methods, but oh well. Have your opinion, I have never once insulted you, or anyone else on this site. But yet, because this is your site, you feel justified in calling me names and allowing other people to call me a slut, and to indict my character?

Yeah. Ok, I'll stoop to your level then because the temptation is just too much...

I am a social worker. I help people make their lives better.
You are a dating coach. You help people who pay you money for advice to get laid (and maybe, if they're lucky, find love). Wow. I'm impressed.

[Mira]

BTDT:

Point is you want that chance, you went to get it and you've got it.
It is better than the people who wants that chance, waited and let it slip by!
When they (their own blame) let it slip by, they should never complain or say anything about someone who actually went to get it unlike them!

It is actually an important life lesson as well, applies to everything a successful person does.
From investing, to a promotion opportunity are but just examples.
Good luck with your man.

[Tania]

The only part of this story that offends me is how BTDT puts down the other woman in order to justify her actions.

[Alison]

"No one who knows us has ever said what I did was wrong, and some of my friends are brutally honest and have no problem telling me like it is. Therefore, you won't get a shrinking violet answer out of me. " I'd say that's probably because women like you usually are only friends with women like themselves so it makes sens that they'd encourage you. A man isn't going to advise you to wait because he's on the guy's side & trying to help a brother out and get him laid. I think you could have still gotten what you wanted and shown compassion instead of sitting on the sidelines being entertained by the action and taking pleasure in another woman humiliating herself.

Wow the comments here are a downer. I love this blog, I read it all of the time. I assume other readers /commentators /commentators have some minimum level of intelligience, and respect for other people. I know that is assuming alot for the internet, but most posts on this blog are not like this one.
Calling someone a "slut", sounding super bitter etc...I didn't actually realize how jealous and sad some of the people who comment on this blog are. I feel sorry for you. I am in my 20's, I hope I never become you.

Sara

second "commentators" was supposed to be 'moxie'
Sara

I rarely agree with any of the advice or comments on here and this is no exception. I'm not getting the reason for all of the mean comments. Moxie's sound especially mean. you guys are ridiculous with a capital r. BeenThereDoneThat didn't STEAL anyone's boyfriend. The guy was on a casual date who he wasn't getting along with. Now they are both very happy. I have a friend who is a great guy and he ended up getting married to a girl that he met at a wedding when he was on a date with someone. There was no bad karma, noone was a slut, they are both wonderful and intelligent people. Now they are both very happy and have a little girl. Get a life people.

[V]

BTDT, It's good that you find yourself happy where you are at presently. And that it's working out well for the moment. This is a good thing, and increasing love & respect can never be far wrong.

The description of how you got to this place from that one frantic night is fraught with trouble, not the least of which was, yes, the humiliating manner in which you disposed of your rival. Yes this happens every day. No, it still does not look or sound all that pretty. I'm glad you're on friendlier terms with the gal now, and perhaps all is for the best in the end. But as 'bar scenes' go, that sounded almost like the start of some serious trouble. If it was a guy going after a gal in the same manner, he could have been expected to be 'called out' for his crass behavior by another guy. I've seen this happen to women with tragic & violent results as well too. Still, somehow with gals doing it, this is typically seen as marginally 'acceptable' or even 'entertaining' to a certain degree.

The other comments I made were based on the limited info we were given on 'the issue'. As far as personality profiles go, I think most of them are still quite likely, but it's good to know some more of the background here too. And it's not for nothing that I added #7 in there too. Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

[BeenThereDoneThat]

Ok, this is the LAST comment I'm going to post regarding this because it's the end of the day, I'm tired, and this thread has pretty much been beaten to death.

VJ, I forgot to thank you for #7. Not sure how I'd stack up against some of the other women around here, but he seems pleased with me in AND out of the bedroom. We talk politics, current events, science, about his kids, work; we tease each other, play xbox (he is the epitome of a geek), etc. We have a good foundation of communication and we talk a lot and we love a lot, too! Because at the end of the day, when the body is too old for sex, what's left? An ability to communicate, and enjoyment of the other's company. :-)

And yes, I apologized to the girl in question, she was cool with it, and we are friendly, if not friends. I did not enjoy watching her make a fool of herself. Actually, it was quite painful to see, but that being said, I still don't see why I should have waited when it was so obvious he did NOT want to be with her. I made his night more bearable, and what is so wrong with that, people?

So I flirted with him while he was out with another woman, expressed interest in him and made it known to him. So what? Like one of the other posters said above...get a life.

As for me, I have one...I'm going home to him. Bye!

[Scotty Q]

Kudos BTDT.

Don't ever compromise a belief, or it would not be a belief anymore.
If it is right by both of you, no one else should even matter.

[Rick]

Yes, Moxie... I knew, but it was just, too easy! Shirley, someone shared the gutter with me at first read? (I know, don't call you Surely!)

BTDT... embrace your inner-slut. Just keep her behind close doors where she belongs, and your husband can celebrate her! :)

Pardon me, I must go and search for my lost shaker of salt!

[Crotch Rocket]

The level of hostility coming from women here is amazing -- and I think it's all rooted in the fact that the rest of you don't have the balls to do what BTDT did and are mad that it worked out for her. Envy often manifests itself by the person lashing out at those more successful. Why the hell can't you people be happy for her? Are you so miserable about your own pathetic lives that you are compelled to flame her for being happy in hers? _This_ is why men, on average, win at the dating game: we'd rather congratulate a fellow guy for being successful (at whatever goal he's chosen) than beat him down to make ourselves feel better.

In general, I'd say that this tactic wouldn't work and screams of desperation. In this particular situation, with these particular people, things worked out well. There's nothing wrong with that. I'll grant it's probably not the norm, and, as VJ says, I've seen things like this turn violent when the other woman figures out what's going on. However, sometimes it works, and one shouldn't berate BTDT for knowing this was one of the times it would. None of the rest of us were there and know everything about the people and the situation.

Again, in general, I wouldn't recommend women do more than approach a man and strike up a conversation -- but that's for the case of a stranger. If you're already friends, you get a lot more leeway because you're not subject to first impressions, or you may need to take some action to correct a past first impression (like him thinking you're not interested in him). Every situation is different, and The Rules will get you into trouble when you obey them slavishly rather than looking at the intent behind The Rules and recognizing when it's safe to break them.

BTDT, I'm glad you're happy and that things seem to be working out, particularly given the disability you have. Ignore all the haters.

[Windy]

BTDT, That was one of the reasons why I asked if you were still together and for how long. You're post bothered me and at first I thought it was the "if he does it to her, he will do it to you" thing. But I realize that I just don't think it's very classy behavior to try to take a man from a woman he is with. I don't start relationships with men who are already in relationships. That's just a rule of mine. I realize that not everyone feels that way. But to be actively texting him while she was right there is just kind of crass I think.

That doesn't mean you are a bad person or that it was a mistake or anything else. But this is a forum for discussing actions and that is all we have to go by.

There are two women in this story. How is it that when other women stand up in defense of the drunk woman they're jealous bitches? Maybe women were reacting so strongly because they were once in the other woman's position. The other woman was already down for the count so what BeenThere did wasn't all that risky. Her competition was inebriated and sobbing. Believe it or not not all women would jump at the chance to pounce on this guy. Not because we're afraid of being rejected but for the simple reason that some of us don't have to because we know that they're of plenty of men out there.

[Dig Your Own Whole]

WOW! Seriously? Seriously? I have to agree with Moxie and V and Crotch Rocket, and countless other people here, BTDT. You are acting very high on that horse of yours and that worries me. Is it really working out right now with him? Really? I doubt it.

Want to get a glimpse of how a man will treat you, observe his interaction with servers. Want to get a glimpse of how a man will carelessly discard you, convince yourself that you took him away from another woman.

You didn't win anything, Dear. You told him everything he needed to know about you within that first few minutes…without even meaning to. And I assure you it was not the things that letters to Mum and receptions at Tiffany's are made of. Retain a shred of dignity and walk away from him now, or don't. But for the love of Pete, recognize that what you did was far from a victory and very much more a neon sign of your inner defeat. Did it really feel good? Really? I doubt it. Your false bravado makes that Waterford clear, honey.

[Interested Reader]

As a woman I have always thought the whole "Rules" thing was ridiculous. As someone who managed to find the love of my life and continue to live happily ever after each day I can honestly say NO ONE ever knows the whole story of any two people except the two people and the unique circumstances to each relationship make or break it and apply only to the two people involved.

Many people denouce anything that is different than what is commonly accepted as mainstream. I know happily married people who many on this blog would criticize to the death because their involvement was not mainstream and yet they are the happiest married people ever. BTDT you did what was right for you and it worked and what anyone else thinks does not matter. The majority of people do not have difficulties to deal with like being deaf and they can't get it right and I am sincerely happy for you that you found yourself the love of your life and I wish you every happiness.

For the Record Crotch Rocket, there are many women who are happy for other women when things go well so although lots are like you say do not think that there are not lots of women who are happy for other woman. I am sure you are a very nice guy and a great catch but try not to think all women are as you mention because they are not and you might miss a good catch for yourself some day. Lots of women want the best for other women somehow on this blog a lot of negativity comes across from some women unfortunately.

On a completely different note I just want to say to Moxie and Craig and the rest of the people here who live in New York I just spent a wonderful week in Manhatten at one of the most beautiful hotels in the city and I loved it but you guys honestly do live in a world like no other. The food was the best I have ever tasted and I have traveled extensively, the shopping was fantastic, the sites unbelievable but how in the world do you deal with the traffic? I mean traffic even walking. I am wondering if when you live there if you just don't even notice. I thought Chicago was bad but it is nothing compared to Manhatten. There was a recent post about how far you would date someone if you lived and worked in Manhatten, I can see that it would truly make it much more difficult to date someone outside of Manhatten if that is where you lived and work. When I originally read that post and the comments I could not truly comprehend what it is like until spending some time there and seeing how long it takes to get around.

I know this is a dating advice blog so I know I am off topic but I am hoping it is okay to talk about your wonderful city of New York. I do have one thing to say though that has me laughing. All the talk about how thin and gorgeous everyone is in Manhatten - HONESTLY, after spending a week there I will say in the nice restaurants at night I definitely saw some hot looking people ( Men and Women) but on the streets walking the people did not look any different than any other major city. AND, there were just as many overweight people walking around than I have seen anywhere else.

Again on a different note, I know Craig has mentioned he lives in Hoboken and I did not know that Hoboken was second only to New York with lost lives after 9/11 so i just hope that you did not lose any of your friends or family members. No matter how much you may have read in the papers or magazines after 9/11 to see that site will still move you to tears.

So Moxie you live in a Wonderful City like no other but I think you guys also have stresses just living daily life that are unlike the rest of us encounter.