I am a 34 year old female who does NOT want kids. I never have and I
probably never will. We are not that rare. - Heather
She's right. We're not. If there is something that I've come to terms with over the last 6 months is that I don't plan to have kids. Kids are probably not in my future due to my age and due to having other priorities. That means that I've just significantly reduced my options.
So how would you suggest a woman broach that topic with a man? Would you (man or woman), if you met someone and wanted children, walk away if you learned that having kids was not an option?
YOUR THOUGHTS?
The last guy I was in a relationship with said he loved me like he hadn't loved anyone ever. He wants to have children and he was building a future in his head of marriage and kids, with me, without telling me. I don't want kids and when he asked me about this I said so. He and I ended the relationship mainly because of this. Now he's with a woman who does want kids. He and I talked recently and he said he still loves me and always will, but since his idea of happiness involves children, he's with this woman. So he's in a loveless relationship but he will have the children he so badly wants.
Posted by: spleen | October 16, 2007 at 05:36 PM
Heather- I have never had any maternal instincts. I don't like kids, never have and never will. I've had many LTRs with men who felt the same.
I do however believe it is something that should be brought up very early when you are dating someone. Yeah, some people change their minds over the long term but I think this is something you should let potential partners know before feelings develop because it's just too important.
I used to feel like such a weirdo because I had no maternal instincts. I no longer do. And I don't feel like I've missed out on anything as people with children will insinuate. So I would walk away from a man who wanted children badly.
Posted by: Debbie | October 16, 2007 at 06:06 PM
For me it would be a dealbreaker, and I'm glad I'm with someone who is on the same page as me re: wanting a family someday. However, I think its fine when people make up their minds not to. Every kid that comes into this world should be a wanted one.
Posted by: Ballerina Gina | October 16, 2007 at 07:21 PM
One of my very best friends has preached "I hate kids" from the day I met her. She met and married a very family-oriented guy, told him that even though she didn't want kids, she would be willing to have one - for him - if they got married. Then, 6 years later, she told him it was never going to happen. But if he wanted to divorce her and find someone else, she wouldn't be upset with him. 2 more years later, and they are still together.
I ended a 7 year relationship because he "suddenly" didn't want to have kids. Though he already had one from a previous marriage and had always talked about having a bunch (I only want 2.)
I think sometimes, one or the other or both of the people in a couple goes into it thinking "I'll change his/her mind." But having - or not having - children is a huge dealbreaker. I think it's best to put it out there in the beginning.
Posted by: cas | October 16, 2007 at 07:57 PM
glad there are other women out there who are my age (i'm 35) who know they don't want kids. :)
i don't mention it early on. i haven't ever met a guy who immediately brings up the topic.
so, if & when it becomes an issue i'll face it head on but until then, i just know i know and that's enough for me.
Posted by: city girl | October 16, 2007 at 08:05 PM
I'm no where near my thirties and i already don't want kids. Despite being a 'sitter for most of my teen years, i just don't want to.
Posted by: Rock | October 16, 2007 at 08:14 PM
I have always wanted kids. If I met someone, who told me right away, that he didn't want kids, then absolutely I would walk away. I definitely would need to find out if he wants kids within the first few months of dating....I am 34 and definitely feel that I don't have time to dilly dally in that respect. So it affects my dating life and relationships. I don't hide from men the fact that I love kids. So I hope they will be straight up honest with me from the very beginning. I have revised my vision a bit though. Now I could be happy with just one kid.
I have known couples, who divorced after one of them changed his/her mind about wanting kids. But at least within my circle of friends, it worked out for both parties.
Posted by: hb | October 16, 2007 at 08:41 PM
Geez - I didn't know I had started another conversation here. Obviously this is an important topic of discussion for dating.
I have been subject to the "you'll change your mind" and "you'll regret it someday" crap that people like to dole when you hold such a 'controversial' opinion. I grew up thinking men naturally didn't want to be "saddled with kids", as this is what my mother always inferred (my dad and my sister's dad didn't stick around for us, after all - but that's a whole other psychodrama). I was shocked and dismayed to find out that a large number of them do indeed want children, but that's a fact I accept.
I was in a very long (8 years+) relationship with someone. He wanted kids - I didn't. I was always upfront about it (anybody who knows me knows I am not the slightest bit maternal). The relationship did end eventually (as I suspected it might). There were other important flaws to our relationship which I won't go into here, but I think I was definitely exhibiting a form of desperation in clinging to this relationship which was nice and safe but clearly doomed to fail.
I think I learned my lesson about clinging to "wrong" relationships from this experience. I was in college when I met my former sweetie, and, I was probably being selfish, I didn't think about the ramifications of things that wouldn't matter for a few years.
Now I will not get involved with anyone who wants children in the slightest way.
Posted by: Heather | October 16, 2007 at 08:44 PM
I think much like women if a man wants kids most of the time he will let it be known fairy soon in the relationship, just like women do.
Posted by: mr-happy | October 16, 2007 at 08:44 PM
I do not plan on having children and I have been very upfront from very early on in my current relationship. I didn't have to bring it up he brought it up first. A few weeks after we started dating I went home to visit my niece's new baby and he jokingly asked when I was going to have a baby. I was very clear that children were not in my plans and if he was sure he wanted children I wouldn't be the woman to settle down with. A year later he's still around. I think for him he took a lot of pressure off and he volunteered that he wasn't sure that he wants children either. I think that many men assume that most women want a family and they just go along with it.
Posted by: Sasha | October 16, 2007 at 10:03 PM
It's a difficult place to be, because the normative expectation of slightly better than 80% of all women is to have kids. Many of them may be qualifiedly not especially pleased with the prospect, but they figure 'this is what happens when you're married' or 'having one can't be too bad' etc. Given that about slightly less than 50% of all pregnancies in the US are unplanned, it's a hazard women deal with if they're in a LTR, and of course enjoying regular sex. Being this is the 'modern age', there are much better & surer ways to mitigate this hazard, with pills & EC etc. But as easy as it is today to avoid an unwanted pregnancy (it could be far easier like it is in Europe), the community of 'Childless by choice' is growing, and the position as a lifestyle is much more supported today that it has ever has been.
The key is knowing what you want early, and expressing this early & often so no one's surprised. When you know this up front, it can also happen that you're with someone, who although desiring of kids, will value the relationship they've got more.
Still there are a surprising number of former 'die hards' who do somehow go on to become mothers later in their careers, (it's usually seen as a 'happy mistake', well mostly). Still, you stand a better than 80% chance currently of either becoming pregnant or a mother sometime in your life time. And yes folks, that may include raising up some other person's youngster because you saw the need. I've got a friend like that. Knew she never wanted kids. She was too busy traveling with her job, which took her around the world for the military. When out in a far flung post of our empire she had a friend who had a crisis pregnancy. Both women were deeply religious and did not want an abortion. On the spot my friend agreed to be the mother of that child. To this day, it's her only child, and she's still thankful for that. Any more probably would have killed her for any number of health related reasons. But it's always a serious question that needs an honest answer. And as fate may intercede, that may not be the final answer either. You know what they say, the only safe sex is alone! Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'
Posted by: VJ | October 16, 2007 at 11:37 PM
Well, if talking about other people babies, I did not like them before I became pregnant and I did not like them after (and still don't) I had my daughter . I did not plan to have a baby, I was just short of 22 and graduating from college, and things just happened. All I can say now is that it was and is the best thing ever happened in my life. And if you ask me if I do it again, I say: yes! No regrets over sleepless nights and such. I do respect people’s choices not to have a child or family. And someone can justify it with many reasons. I just feel and believe that when the time is right and you found that special one (The One), things happen...
Posted by: msp96 | October 16, 2007 at 11:55 PM
i'm 34 & have NEVER had the urge to have kids.
one night a few weeks ago though, i had a dream i was pregnant. it was pretty realistic...
i felt like a QUEEN! it was the greatest! i also felt even more in love with, & connected to the dude i was with (in my dream it was jonathan davis from koRn--WTF!!??... anyway.
i was very surprised my subconscience would come up with this, but i'm STILL pretty darn sure i don't want kids. i'd like to be a mentor or a big sister to someone already on the planet.
Posted by: ana | October 17, 2007 at 12:25 AM
"That means that I've just significantly reduced my options." Bzzt. At your age, that just took you from near zero options to many guys 35+ who still don't want kids or already had all they wanted. Men who want kids won't date a woman 35+ because we assume you're desperate to get pregnant while you still have a few years left -- and we're usually right; saying you don't (and not obviously being in denial about it or lying to catch a guy) will open some of those men back up to dating you.
"So how would you suggest a woman broach that topic with a man?" Get it out there as soon as you can work it into the conversation unobtrusively; if you're doing the online thing, even put it in your profile. Depending on your age, it may attract more guys than it drives away.
"Would you (man or woman), if you met someone and wanted children, walk away if you learned that having kids was not an option?" Yes, I absolutely would -- regardless of which way the disagreement went. That's a fundamental life decision that can't be compromised on; I know a lot of couples that have tried and every time it's been a horrific mess. If one person is ambivalent, that's one thing, but if both of them _know_ what they want and it's not the same thing, it's time to move on.
Posted by: Crotch Rocket | October 17, 2007 at 12:28 AM
First I think it needs to be noted that it is different to have not happened to have kids or ran out of time or whatever versus decieding that you do not want kids. In the former I think it is less important and frankly if people know your age they are going to know that you are time is running out.
I think people should make their position known fairly early whether it be pro kids, anti kids, or neutral.
I think where you at is going to affect your prospects alot. Sure, I live in a city and it still has a rather country/old-fashioned sensibility about it. I rarely meet a woman over 30 who has not had a kid or at least played the mommy role to a partner's kid. I think there is a lot of social pressure to couple up and have kids. From my experiance talking to people I would guess that around here probably for guys it is 25% absolutely must have kids, 25% would like kids, 25% would rather not but probably will, 25% really would rather not yet some still will. For women: 50% absolutely, 45% would like too, 4% would rather not but will and 1% really would rather not (and won't).
Posted by: Steve from the city next door | October 17, 2007 at 03:03 AM
Current Census stats say that most women over the age of 15 have or will: about slightly better than 90% at last peek at the data. Projections and mid decade Census estimates are that this expectation is indeed changing rapidly however, and the current estimates are as I cited, about 82-83% as an estimate for 'completed fertility', which I think officially ends about 50. (Now you know, right?). So yes, a natural normative expectation that's easier to avoid today, should you seek to, than ever before, and with out the usual hassles too. We've come a long way to avoid baby... Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'
Posted by: VJ | October 17, 2007 at 06:14 AM
It's nothing personal, but life partners should have common goals when it comes to major life ambitions. I can't think of a dealbreaker that is bigger the desire (or not) to be a parent.
Posted by: LizM | October 17, 2007 at 06:38 AM
I hit the post button too quickly...
I meant to point out also, that while I would walk away if a guy knew he didn't want to be a parent in the future, this doesn't mean that I would walk away if he wanted to have children but is infertile. Adoption has always been an option for me. Donor sperm could also be a possibility. I would not walk away from a great guy just because we couldn't produce a kid ourselves--as long as we could have a family.
I am 38 years old and getting married this year. We are both aware that fertility may be an issue for me. We have already discussed what we will do if a bio-kid is not an option.
Posted by: LizM | October 17, 2007 at 06:44 AM
I also think most men [and rightly so] are afraid that once the kids come and of course during pregnancy the sex will stop. For many women sex is either never the same again after giving birth or their drive is greatly reduced temporarily or for good.
For many guys who do not want to raise kids and love sex meeting a women who they are attracted too but who does not want kids is music to their ears.
Posted by: mr-happy | October 17, 2007 at 08:03 AM
My advice - be very upfront, when you are discussing the issue, and I would also recommend that you do it as early as possible (no, I am not saying on the first date, but the first time you two start talking about a long-term relationship and future).
I do not want any more children, I have one already, he is almost 10, and I do not want any more. I am upfront about it, whether in my profile on the dating sites or in conversation, and yes, I am also upfront about my preference being that if he has children, they be close in age or older than my son (although this is not a relationship breaker, esp. if thie child's mom is in the picture). I am not interested in parenting a young child again, while I love children and love my son out of this world, I am not interested in parenting (ie, potty-training, diapers, daycare, etc.) again.
I enjoy the independence I am regaining as my son gets older, I am on "the back nine" - yes a golfer's term for saying I am on the second set of 9 years until college. I enjoy the fact that now
I can get up and go without having to plan for two hours before executing said plans.
As I mentioned before, be upfront, honest and direct. I personally would not like knowing that I had invested a lot of time and emotions into a relationship with a guy set on having (biological) children in the future. Perhaps, it is cold-hearted of me, but I feel that strongly, I do not want to invest time with someone if in years to come, he's gonig to turn to me and say "sweetheart, let's have a baby." I do not want to go there.
Posted by: DT | October 17, 2007 at 08:47 AM
At 18 and 20, my kids are adults and I'm out of the baby-making and/or raising business. Not only do I not want to have more of my own (and I'm surgically sterile, anyway), but I'm not interested in getting involved with anyone who has young kids, either. I've passed on some great guys because of their kids, but in the end, it's better not to start something you know you're not interested in finishing.
When the subject comes up in conversation - and it always does - I just say how I feel. It makes things easier in the long run.
Posted by: swf42 | October 17, 2007 at 09:04 AM
I'm 26 right now and was with an older girl who wanted a kid so we split up, but when I'm around 30 and my girlfriend says no kids I'm out the door to look for a younger one. The main reason we're on this earth for is to procreate... and if you don't your genes die with you. Not going to happen. Some girls get to old and expire so that's why your ideal girlfriend should always be (your age / 2 + 10). It's much easier to do when you have money so get your career set right as quickly as possible.
Posted by: Tom | October 17, 2007 at 11:54 AM
not everyone wants to have children and thats ok. also the timiing in our lifes might prevent us from having kids or a second child. i myself was pondering this yesterday. my situation is a little different because i already have a son but for some time i didnt want to have another child due to circumstances. i now find that it might be too late and how would i approach a guy a let him know what i am feeling? one of my best friends is 35 never married and wants to have kids, she feels the clock is ticking away. her feeling is what if its too late when she meets the right man? the what if's in life might hold us back from achieving our desires. the advice i give you is this: when you meet the right man and this will happen at the right time in your life, if he is in love with you,this shouldnt be a deal breaker. he will understand. if he cant live with this choice then he isnt right for you.
Posted by: amy | October 17, 2007 at 12:26 PM
Coming from a 44-year-old male who was forced to "Go Back to Start" in the game of "Dating Monopoly" at age 41 (after 7 years without marriage or kids), a woman who didn't want children would be a dealbreaker for me.
I may be 44 years in age, but times have changed. I am active, athletic and have hobbies that keep me appearing young for my age. I refuse to settle for anything less than some kind of future with a family in it.
Since I tend to be attracted to younger women/vice versa, I don't see a problem with it.
Posted by: johnnyb | October 17, 2007 at 01:07 PM
I think you just have to approach it the same way that I (as a 41-year-old with her tubes tied) does...just be open and honest from the get-go.
If they bring up the subject of kids, say "thanks but it's not for me."
Posted by: trouble | October 17, 2007 at 01:35 PM
@Tom
"The main reason we're on this earth for is to procreate... and if you don't your genes die with you."
Why don't you let your genes (and your philosophy) die with you.
Posted by: Heather | October 17, 2007 at 04:04 PM
Well now, I admit, I'm in shock at the "we're not that rare" comment.
I'm 40, and have no kids, and am finally in a place in my life, where I have begun to have the freedom to truly take charge of my life, and make choices for myself and only myself.
One of those choices, is that I don't want children.
Funny thing is.. I love kids. I enjoy playing with them, and the chance to act like a big kid, myself. But now that I've found myself at this stage of life, and my level of freedom, the last thing I want, is to be tied down by children of my own.
I've often wondered how -I- bring that up to women, and assumed it was a tremendous knock against me, when dating, as I assume most women want children, MORE than men do.
It's an interesting topic, and one that could probably become very heated, very quickly. I haven't had the chance to read all the posts, but it should prove interesting.
Posted by: Steve H | October 19, 2007 at 03:40 AM
RE: Heather
"Why don't you let your genes (and your philosophy) die with you."
..because I'm out there spreading them.. lol. You probably aren't up to par to be a carrier but don't feel bad, you'll find some average chump to plant his seed.
Posted by: Tom | October 19, 2007 at 11:41 AM
I'm with Heather on this.
Jesus, Ram Dass, James Buchanan, Ralph Nader, etc...just a few men without
kids. Yeah, they made no contribution to society (insert dripping sarcasm)
-Maybe Tom needs to procreate because he is an average chump with no lasting legacy or purpose.
Posted by: M.M. | October 19, 2007 at 01:14 PM
Glad to see there are women out there who don't have baby fever... in the past I left the option open, admitting that while I didn't feel the urge to have kids, I might considerate having them for the right woman. But I've come to realize its not something I really want, and it killed my last relationship...
That aside...it is sort of awkward to discuss having kids early in a relationship, but is usually a deal breaker...maybe those dating profiles have value afterall ??
Posted by: Freddy | October 23, 2007 at 11:53 AM