Girl Power

Name: Jana | Location: New York , NY |Question: I don't have a question.  I wanted to comment on your comments to this 38-year-old who was dating a 28-year-old guy.
First off, the girl said she thought she looked 25 and he thought was 25.  One person commented no way.  That's not true.  I know when I was 34 I was constantly taken for a high school student.  At 40, I was taken for 24 - 29.  Not everyone ages the same way.

Is it really a cardinal sin for women to lie about their age?  Men do it all the time.   They try to get a woman that's much younger than them by lying about their ages - i.e. they are 45, they see a girl who they think is 25, they tell her they are 37.   Instead of being on the woman's side here, you are on the man's side.  If the guy didn't like the idea that this woman was older than him, he just should have said it.  There is no excuse for treating a woman like "fuck material" or mistreating her because of "age."

What you are doing is encouraging men in their stupid chauvinist fantasies that they can get a younger woman - but when the ages are reversed, it's a terrible sin.  Instead of being interested in a woman's age as the criteria, they should be interested in whether they are attracted to the woman and have something in common with her and a basis for a relationship.  No one should be mistreating anyone - and no one should be scolded for trying to get someone more interested in them that they like.  As for temporarily lying about your age, both men and women do it all the time.  They are doing it to give someone an opportunity to like them who they think might otherwise not.  It is not a "sin."  It usually doesn't work.  It's a psychological trick for some people who really do look younger than they are.

Moxie, you should be on women's side a bit more than you are.  You are all out there for the poor guy.  Men have enough advantages and should not be encourage to crap on a woman or mistreat her for any reason.  Also, you
can't assume that this woman really looked 38 and that it was preposterous for her to try to get this 28 year old.  Maybe that's the case.  Maybe she looked younger.  Whatever.  Dating shouldn't be this complicated - but that's just the scene in NY.  No one should have any reason to mistreat anyone.   |Age: 42

Make up your god damned mind. She shouldn't have to be upfront and forthcoming about her age, but he should be expected to tell her, after she's allowed him to think she's 10 years younger, that he's not interested?

Moxie, you should be on women's side a bit more than you are.  You are all out there for the poor guy. 

Have you even READ this blog? Or are you just bent because you read this one post and it didn't jive with how you live your life? I've come down even harder on the delusional men who are in their 40's and insisting on dating the women in their 20's, too. What I took issue with in regard's to Jace's situation is that she, in both her personal situation AND her original letter to me, conveniently left out her age and then tried to skiew her story so she'd get the responses she wanted. She wanted to make the guy look like a pussy. Is it a coincidence, than in her experiences with this man AND her letter to me, that she ommitted her age? Seriously doubt it. She wasn't forthcoming in her letter or with this guy. Maybe because, if she had been, she would have known which side of the argument I would have fallen on and I wouldn't have sympathized for her. I even had to ask her if she knew, upfront, how old he was when they met. That's not a sign that someone is being forthcoming when I have to send them 3 e-mails to get them to clarify their story. When someone wants to tell a clear account of a situation, they include every pertinent detail. When they want to skiew the results, they tell only what makes them look good or look like a victim. If a guy went to a strip club with his friends and told his girlfriend he went "out" and then she found out where he went and asked "Why didn't you tell me?" what would his answer be? "Because I knew you wouldn't like it." And then what would happen? People would jump all over him for lying. Same situation.

This woman is no victim and just because I have a vagina doesn't mean I'm gonna be all "You Go Girl! You look 13 years younger than you do. Wooo Hoo!" Get the fuck out of here with that. You can bet I'm not going to encourage that delusional line of thinking. I refuse to encourage that warped sense of self-perception so women can keep beating their head into a wall and get rejected time and time again and end up feeling completely defeated and dejected. How do you know that this guy didn't get totally smitten with her and then was completely disappointed NOT because she was older but because she wasn't forthcoming about it? I have/had a big problem with how she continued to try and make him look like he was the one who lacked integrity. Especially when the reality was that she withheld pertinent information that she knew could make a difference. According to her, she thought he assumed she was 25. You don't think that that's something you should clarify? I do and don't expect me to apologize for that. In fact, I wrote a post about it about 2 months ago because I was in the same situation.

As for temporarily lying about your age, both men and women do it all the time.  They are doing it to give someone an opportunity to like them who they think might otherwise not.

They try to get a woman that's much younger than them by lying about their ages - i.e. they are 45, they see a girl who they think is 25, they tell her they are 37.

Which side of the argument are you on? Because it sounds like you think it's wrong for a guy to do it. Sooo...if it's wrong for him to do it, then it's wrong for her to do it. We're not talking about a 2-3 year age difference. We're talking about a 10-13 year age difference. THAT'S okay to hide? Of course it's not! It doesn't matter if you have a wee-wee or a hoo-hah...it's wrong. And we haven't even broached the topic of letting a guy blow money on you, money he busted his ass to earn, under the premise that she was something she wasn't. I don't care if it's $5 or $500 dollars...how dare anybody let someone spend money on them when they know they haven't been upfront about something that they KNOW could make a difference. Again, pee-pee or la-la...wrong, wrong, WRONG.

What you are doing is encouraging men in their stupid chauvinist fantasies that they can get a younger woman - but when the ages are reversed, it's a terrible sin.

Oh. I see. Funny...did I not say that this was exactly the eventual attitude of a woman who continued to go after men who didn't want her? Stop all this clinging to your 20's and embrace your 30's and 40's. The only person who is telling these women that they are old is them. They don't want  a guy their age because they think those men are "old." And if they date them, they'll be considered "old" too. It's bullshit. That delusional "I'm 38 but look 28 therefore I should still be attractive to 28 year olds" way of thinking and ridiculous sense of entitlement is why there are so many women in this city running around like chickens with their heads cut off. Men have, for hundreds of years, gone after women who were younger than they were. It's hard wired into their brain. This should not come as a surprise. They are not going to make an exception for a woman just because she's "hot" and if they do, then that's not someone you should want to be with anyway. How much would you like to bet that these women have met plenty of truly great, handsome, kind, secure men and passed them by because they wanted a sleeker model? Please. Stop trying to make it about how the men are assholes (which some of them are) and take some responsibility for your own bad choices.

Men have enough advantages and should not be encourage to crap on a woman or mistreat her for any reason.

And women don't have advantages? Women don't use their sexuality to get free meals and cars and gifts? Men haven't cornered the market on being golddiggers. Women have. And every time a woman accepts a date because she has nothing better to do or because she wants a free goddamn meal because she can't make ends meet herself, she sets ALL WOMEN back. Every time a woman sleeps with a guy after 1 or 2 dates with absolutely no promise a future with the guy, they set the tone for other women. Every time a woman allows a man to treat her poorly and comes back for more, she sends the message that there are plenty of women out there who will let that guy get away with being an asshole. You want girl power? Howsabout we start putting an end to those things and start keeping our own in check? God forbid I call women out on accepting shitty treatement and settling for inconsistent and disrespectful behavior. Men treat some of us like shit because they have been conditioned to believe it's okay. Why? Because other women have let them get away with that very behavior. The guys aren't going to change until they see that certain behavior will beget certain results.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Comments

[willie]

Moxie - I agree with most of what you say, except for the idea that chasing younger women is hard-wired into mens brains. There's no wiring involved, it's just pure ego! A guy who wants a much younger woman does it so he can show off what a stud he is that he can get a hot young chick. The problem I have with this woman is not the fact that she temporarily omitted to tell the guy her age, but that she's chasing a much younger guy to start with. Does she have a probelm with men her own age? Is she trying to recapture lost youth by dating younger men? Mentally strong, secure men and woman are happy to date people in their own age range.

[Rock]

I think she mentioned that she was not on the baby track, i reckon men her age might just be compared to men in their 20's. However, this is pure conjecture so i don't know...

[Scotty Q]

A delusional woman is as unattractive as someone who lies about their age. I agree with willie that it is about being mentally strong and stable to be able to face an adult responsibility for any LTR. A woman may look attractive and of that youthful age, but will quickly become a tiresome ugly person the minute they open their mouths on that lie. A woman can use all the make up and lies to hide that truth but truth will comes out sooner or later. It is also better to give the real age but then have men wanting to pursue you because of that good genes of the youthful look you possess rather than the lies. When you have to lie about anything of yourself, means you are already lacking in that confidence of that real you.

As Moxie addressed so throughly, I couldn't agree with Moxie more.

[LizM]

I can't say that I look a ton younger than my 38 years or not. People think my fiance and I are the same age. He is 4.5 years younger than me. I DO know that people are often surprised when I tell the how old I am. This is exactly WHY I used to go out of my way to make sure a guy knew how old I was when I was out meeting new people and dating. And it was more for ME than for the guy.

There are men who don't want kids, but I imagine that the guys who do *eventually* want a family far outnumber those that don't--and *eventually* is the key word. In the example of the previous letter, the women is 28 and the guy is not yet 30. He doesn't want children now, but he sees himself having a family down the road. It doesn't matter if she "isn't on the baby track"--he knows that a 38 year old woman is not going to be able to start a family 5 years from now when he may be ready.

This is why I say it was MY sake that I made sure guys know. Why would I want to get attached to a guy only to be rejected later? If my age was a dealbreaker, I wanted to know that.

I mean "the woman is 38". sorry.

I mean "the woman is 38". sorry.

[isabella]

There are PLENTY of male golddiggers out there! I have a delusional friend who can't seem to get that her Kenyan boyfriend is lying about pursuing a divorce while he enjoys free trips to America and other places and plenty of free meals from her.

[Amy-banda]

I am 38 as well. It seems to be the tainted number. The men that are attracted to me are also young and I let them know my age up-front. I have a very busy life with work and grad school so honestly guys 25-35 are basically playthings for me at this point. I don't have time for a LTR right now but its nice to have something emotionally fulfilling. Moxie should have some reccomendations of places to meet me, cause I have no idea. Seriously, other than bars and concerts I dont know where to meet hetero men. If you have some semblance of a life I suggest at meet up group or find a hobby and see where that take you with the men you meet. 28 yr olds are boy candy,nothing to be serious about.

[DYo]

Kick ass, Mox! Insightful rebuttal. My confusion is this...if you are a gal who is not interested in having children, esp if you are in your late 30s, wouldn't you want to avoid any and all men who are under age 42 or 43? I think the majority of men under 43 want to have their own biological children but many of them, particularly in the urban areas like NY, don't decide to make this a priority until they are in their mid-to-late 30s or early to mid-40s. Any gal hoping to change a guy's mind about this is just spitting in the wind, unless she knows, upfront, that he doesn't care about having his own children. So, as young and good as we may look, my mature sisters, it is not our business to convince family-minded men of our "worthiness". Better off 'spoiling' an older man with our youthful fabulocity...they usually recognize and appreciate it far more, and they are often at the point in their lives that they are looking for an attractive, fun companion with whom to share their life. The older guys also have usually realized their career goals and now have the time and resources to enjoy life. This seems pretty great to me! And to boot, an older guy is probably not going to be as critical as a younger one when we gals do start aging gracefully. So, leave the youngsters to their own similar-minded group and find a man who appreciates a gal with some experience under her belt and around her eyes ;)!

But Moxie, as for gals using guys for a free meal, while I agree that continuing to go out with someone that you know you aren't interested in is really tacky and mean, don't men often continue to take women that they are not really interested in out in the hope of 'getting some'? It's a two-way street and both parties are wrong, but I don't believe that being a woman who is a gold-digger' is any worse than being a man who is a 'deceitful user'.

I am so with you, though, that if men and women started behaving with more respect for themselves and each other, a lot of dating angst would disappear. I have only just internalized this myself and am interested to see how it works going forward. The Golden Rule, folks...it ain't just for fundamentalist Christians anymore ;)!

[trouble]

If you aren't looking for a serious relationship and are just wanting to have fun, I don't see a reason to put age limits on it. But, whereas a guy might date a woman 10-15 years younger, and seriously consider a committed relationship with her, it seems to me that apart from extremely rare instances, if women try to do the same, they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

I've never chased younger men. They have, however, regularly chased me. From time to time, I've allowed myself to be caught. I have no regrets. They're fun. ;)

But would I ever get serious about one? Oh, hell no.

[Mira]

I agree with Moxie.

Like I said, to portray anything that isn't real/true are all "wannabes".
I am one for the "Golden Rule".

On how women has the responsibility in determining how men of today treats us:
"Friends with Benefits" is a modern term, NOT a popular thing in the past... a woman of the past would never tolerate that term.
When you accepted that "FWB" term as a norm, that is when women of today messed up!
Of sex and the value of it...
Even if you think it is "beneficial" to both parties, it is still a belief of an action commit without having to bear responsibilities from that action; devalues an important aspect of self-control and also devalue the importance of something that should have been sacred like love between a man and a woman.
Kids or no kids, why do you think sex today is so cheap (the value/significant of sex)?
Free of emotions "get together"!

Karma! Easy sex, prevents heart break especially when no emotions (no love) is involved.
And as the vicious circle grows bigger, more heartless players (people who lost their faith in love) out there (breaking more hearts in the process) creating more people to lose that important belief of investing their emotions!
That is why fewer and fewer people will have a true chance at love anymore (convenience spreads)... everyone wants to put out sex, no one wants to put out emotions (especially when a woman does it "when we want to BE the same as men" out of revenge or whatever, we have spoilt the men). Giving in to the "dog eat dog" mentality.... you will be left a dog, humanity will be just that... a dog, an animal with no control; not that higher being we should be!

Truth for LOVE = Faith + Believe. (We must not lose heart or we all will bear consequences and affect the next generation/society for love of any kind.)

[psychedelikat]

I have never lied about my age and I get mixed reviews about how old I look. A younger guy of 22 thought I was 25, but someone closer to my age thought I was 35. When I see younger women today and look at myself in the mirror and compare, there's no freakin' way any guy in his right mind would think I'm only 25. Not that I look old. It's how I dress, how I carry myself. I don't dress "young." I dress my age, 30-something, hip, cool, but not 20-ish. There's a big difference in the way a woman dresses herself and behaves in her 20's vs. her 30's.

The age factor should come up on the first date somehow. And if it's determined there's a significant discrepency, I think both parties need to be honest about their intentions. It can be a major issue later. When I was in my 20's the thought of dating a guy 10 years older than me had a serious "yuck" factor to it. It's just the way it goes. I used to think 30 was ancient. Some men appreciate the older woman because there's a stereotype about older women being more free and knowledgeable about sex. There's an old country song called, "Older Women Make Beautiful Lovers." Of course, that's a gross generalization and not always true. But there's a definite status thing about a younger man dating a hot older woman. If I was to date a younger man, it would only be for sex, and nothing more. I certainly wouldn't expect to want any more, unless he was an extraordinary young man, and he wanted more as well.

Of course, the same is true for an older man dating a younger woman, especially if he wants to have (more) kids. His friends will think he's still "got it" and his ego goes way up. The women in both instances usually get what they want, too. The younger woman gets an older, established man while the older woman gets the young testosterone laden young guy.

Bottom line is, age is not just a number. It's about the experience, the biological clock, and where you are in life. So do everyone a favor and don't hide it.