Cock Tease

Recently I attended a "Business Networking" event where I met an attractive women, in her early 30's
(slightly older than myself).  She seemed confident,intelligent, and came off like she knew exactly what
she wanted.  We exchanged contact information, and I picked up that she might of been interested in more than just a "business" relationship.

A few days later I called her, but she seemed rather cold and distant.  We agreed to meet up for a drink,
but I wasn't sure if was going to be something "personal" or "business".  I chalked it up to me
picking up on something during our 1st meeting that wasn't there, and decided to not rush and call or
e-mail her right away. 

A few days later I got a call from her asking why I hadn't set up a date for a drink.  "Wasn't I
interested?" she asked.  I apologized, using the excuse that I had a busy schedule and just hadn't had
the time... which she seemed to accept.  We met much later in the day for drinks, and it was clear by her body language and somewhat aggressive PDA's (eye
contact, arm touching, neck massaging, nippling on my earlobe, etc)  that her intrests were inddeed
personal.  Drinks turned into a great dinner, and what should of been a "1 hour first date" ended up being 3 hours plus.  All and all I had a great time.  I walked
her back to her apartment, where she invited me upstairs, and this is where I get confused.

Let me make this clear to your readers before I go on: I don't go on a date "expecting" something.  I don't really have a sense of "entitlement" about what should happen on a 1st, 2nd or 3rd date.  If I pay for dinner, I don't expect a physical act in return.  However, if someone invites me upstairs at the end of
a date, thats usually an implication that something's going to happen, and by something I don't mean were going to break out the "Risk" board game.  Maybe some kissing, hooking up, etc.  I don't expect sex, or any other specific act...just to be clear...but I would think that the invitation to "come upstairs" classicly carries with it a certain implication of some kind of physical intimacy (am I out of line for thinking so???).  If I have a nice time on a date with a girl I
really like, and it ends on a long hug, I'm 100% happy.  If I had a nice time and it ends on something
more... bonus!  The point I'm trying to make (to all those who would accuse me of being upset that I
"didn't get any" and just focusing on that issue... just like the last time I wrote in!) is that I'm happy
either way, but I get frustrated if I get "led on" in one direction and then taken in another.

And, as I am implying, nothing really happened.  Sure, we cuddled.  We necked.  She rubbed my back.  But she seemed to get very uncomfortable, and very quickly,
anytime we started to kiss.  She would pull away / push me away, then get very shy if a light kiss had
started to turn into something heaver.  I asked her if she wanted me to go, and she told me "No" several
times.  Everytime I brought up the idea that I should
leave she seemed to pout, even going so far to mount me at one point and prevent me from leaving... but she would get uncomfortable if I responded physically.  So
we just "spooned" and watched the news.  After an hour I left. 

We went out at over the weekend, meeting for lunch at noon, and again... lots of great conversations, jokes, great food, and yes... more heavy PDA's (hand holding,
massaging, squeezing my nipple in public and telling me she loved my muscles, walking into a mattress store where she pulled me onto a mattress and started to
kiss me, etc...).  When I asked her, just to make normal conversation, what she had planned for the rest of the day, her response was "Why?  Do you want me to come back to your place?" 

I invited her back to my apartment to watch TV, and again we started to kiss a bit.  And yes, again, she
became uncomfortable quickly.  I asked her if "why she was uncomfortable", but just got several weird looks, and a few "What do you means?".  And when I called her a "big flirt" half joking, she got upset.  So I just stopped trying... We took a little nap together, I ordered in dinner, watched some more TV, and sent her home.  It was another very long date.  Beyond some cuddling, nothing happened.

So, in short, she seems to be aggressive, & knows exactly what she wants when were out and about (what I would expect from a women in her 30's), but when I get her alone she becomes very withdrawn (not what I expect from an older & sucessful woman).  I would like to keep dating her, but I don't like getting mixed signals. 

And the horror story that plays in my mind is that court case in Maryland...consensual sex, but the women withdraws consent during the act, the guy stops after
5 seconds "give or take", & the court find him guilty of "first-degree Rape".

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/04/md-court-expand.html

We both agreed to go out again next week, but if she invites me upstairs to her place again I'm pretty sure I'll decline.  If she asks why, I'll just tell her that I don't feel she's comfortable with me when were
alone, and we should probably just wait a bit until she is.  What do you think?  - Anonymous

The problem is obvious. She's a cock tease. She wants to seem all sexually aggressive and confident, but she's too afraid to follow through for fear you'll think she's a slut.

Yes, if a woman invites you up to her apartment after a first date, then the implication is that she wants to get physical. Any adult woman who doesn't know that by now is suspect in my eyes.  She's coming on strong and then pulling away because she's not totally comfortable being the aggressor. She's kind of playing a role and not being true to herself. Another red flag.

My feeling is this. You want to be sexually aggressive? Fine. But own it. Accept the fact that you might be branded a slut. If you don't want to be called a slut, then don't act like one. An don't use sex to keep or get a guy interested. That lasts for about a month. If you're crazy or insecure or have some kind of flaw (and we all do) they will eventually be brought to light.

I have no idea if she's a slut. But I can tell you that her overly-aggressive behavior is not a good sign. She actually sounds a little psycho. Either she wants to sleep with you or she doesn't. She's an adult. She needs to make up her mind. She's trying to force along the intimacy part and seems to want to jump into being a couple. That's not healthy. That's a sign of someone who's either really lonely or really desperate.  She's trying to make you her boyfriend quickly, probably so you don't see any of her faults or flaws. So she'll distract you with sex so that you'll stay interested, but when push comes to shove, her lack of confidence (and probably lack of emotional stability) won't let her pull the trigger. She's using sex to act as some kind of distraction from the fact that she's probably a tad bit crazy. And, heY, look...we're all crazy. But she's afraid that if you see the crazy, you'll run. Probably because that's what other men have done. So beware.

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Comments

[amen]

Run now my ex was like this. She would tease and tease when I made my move she would just move away. She had no confidence in who she is. My take is either shit or get off the toilet.

Maybe she thinks that by keeping you confused you'll be interested in this pseudo dating.

If you're not interested in sex that's fine but don't give mixed signals and the go signals when you're not willing to go.

Maybe she thinks you're one of those cuddle bitches who give her the attention, love, caring she wants in hopes of having a real relationship one day. One day never comes for some.

I had a friend who waited for the woman who he wanted to be with for 3 years. Whenever she needed something it was Dan please help me, she dangled some cuddling so he thought there was hope.

It was just a carrot, carrots are for rabbits!

Don't be Dan the cuddle bitch who wasted 3 years of his life while she blew, fucked guys who never lifted a finger for her!

It's not all about sex, it's about being clear about what we want, don't trick someone into believing you want something when you don't.

[Rock]

I hate when the word 'woman' is mispelled. Especially by adults.
Anyway, what's up with these marathon dates?

[cricket]

"But she seemed to get very uncomfortable, and very quickly, anytime we started to kiss. She would pull away / push me away, then get very shy if a light kiss had
started to turn into something heaver."

"again we started to kiss a bit. And yes, again, she
became uncomfortable quickly."

Sounds to me like she's into you but you're a bad kisser or have bad breath.

[KSR]

A few possibilities crossed my mind--none of them are good:

- She has read some book or applying some strategy (badly) to try to catch a man

- She had sex with a guy (or guys) she really liked somewhat early on and was never called back. So, she's wants to pace things but is very attracted to you and thinks the only way you'll stay interested is over-the-top sexual teasing

- She used to have casual sex and is trying to reform herself in hopes of getting a relationship

- She was sexually abused at some point

I think your recommended approach is smart if you want to continue things. You need to start calling her on this behavior, because she's clearly not ready to get physical with you, yet sets things in motion in that direction.

Honestly, this behavior is a huge red flag, and I think that this woman has serious emotional and sexual issues. If you are weirded out this early on, imagine what other abnormal crap will be thrown your way a few months from now if you continue to see her.

And I am a woman telling you this.

[VJ]

Red & yellow flags all over the field of play here. Again Mox called it right. This dame was playing CT from word 'Go' here. She probably knows Exactly what she's doing, for whatever reason. We might even speculate on those reasons, but it really can't be bad breath. Just not a real likely scenario here.

"She actually sounds a little psycho". Mox again nails it here. This is the obvious danger. For whatever reason, she's not fully integrating her sexuality into your sessions. She's a 30 something adult playing what are essentially VERY old & tiring HS games with you. Now this could be the new modish 'cuddle bitch' deal, or it could be some sort of incipient Schizophrenia like condition. Either way it does not sound good.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that she's just an 'old fashioned' CT/PT, and leave it at that. I say life being as short as it is, you might want to just call her on it. She's an adult, not a child or a teen. There has to be a valid reason why she does what she does. There's an offside chance she's a virgin too, which complicates things a bit further. So ask her straight up, 'Do you like sex?' If she continues teasing without much by way of explanation, I tell her to bring her 'come on' games to a different court.

Again ultimately life's just too damn short for this type of BS. Tell her you don't know whether she's 'coming or going' and where you stand with her. No one should ever waste Years at this silly BS. Weeks at the very most, and that's only to be Extra Polite and Gentle. Really.

Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

[b]

"We both agreed to go out again next week, but if she invites me upstairs to her place again I'm pretty sure I'll decline. If she asks why, I'll just tell her that I don't feel she's comfortable with me when were
alone, and we should probably just wait a bit until she is. What do you think?"

I think she'll probably get defensive and deny being uncomfortable with you. But I still think this is the right way for you to handle the situation. I know if I were this woman, and if the reason for my odd behavior was that I was very attracted to you but not ready to get physical, though still wanting you to know how much I was looking forward to it, I would be relieved to be called out on it and given the chance to explain myself. However, it doesn't sound like this woman is good at expressing herself, so you may not be able to get her to be honest and admit what's going on.

My advice is to go with your instinct to avoid another uncomfortable push-pull session upstairs. Gently tell her that you are not in any rush and are enjoying getting to know her (because it sounds like you really do like her). This statement alone will probably go a long way to setting her at ease. Then give her an amazing kiss before saying goodnight at her door. Take control of the process of getting physical from now on, and don't let her get ahead of herself anymore. You seem to be a great guy with good self-control. There is nothing sexier. She'll come around soon enough.

[Walden]

Leave this one alone. This woman has too many problems too early to deal with. Chalk it up to what ever kind of relationship issue you want to but the bottom line is: Cock Tease?, Dinner Whore?, or just a little nutty? = not worth the effort.

[mkelly]

I think something deeper is going on. She could have had some traumatic sexual experience, not completely comfortable with her own sexuality (or even understand it fully - and I don't mean just the mechanical stuff but the emotional, psychological, spiritual, and even the deeper physical aspects), or maybe she never had a healthy romantic/sexual relationship to teach her HOW to have a healthy physical relationship.

If you care about her, be her friend too. Be the safe person for her, give her room to trust you so that she can tell you what's really going on. She may also need your help to get some of that stuff out (if she is repressing, in denial, or simply clueless). Really listening to her, being attuned to her needs, not just her wants, these can create a foundation for an incredible relationship that is satisfying to you both.

For example. Instead of calling her a tease in a half-joking tone, you could have had an honest conversation about that. Told her how you feel when she does this or that, and ask her if she knows why she does that. And really listen to her. And whatever her response, you need to show her that it's ok, that whatever she is feeling is valid and you're not going to leave because she is more complicated now.

Whatever you do, DON'T try to fix her and don't tell her not to feel the way she does. The way to win her trust is to assure her that whatever she is feeling is valid and her fears do not define her.

If you don't to say, then simple ask her what she needs from you. And do it. She obviously wants you to be around. So be around. Don't brush her off if she invites you in again. And what the heck is wrong with just spooning all night? Maybe that is what she needs right now.

I don't think she is a tease. I think she is scared. Of what? That, I don't know.

But here is an opportunity for you to demonstrate your manhood. By being strong for her, by being the source of strength for her. And even if things don't work out in the long run, you will have had the schooling of your lifetime in relationships and your next will be amazing - because you would have become a better man.

What I prescribe is not an easy thing, I totally empathize - trust me I've been there, both on the "tease" side and on the confused side. And all of it was a huge learning experience for me. So, good luck.

[trouble]

This girl is so not right...she totally has issues. A woman who doesn't want to have sex right away will just be upfront with you and tell you the actual reasons, and will handle this conversation like an adult. For whatever reason, this girl hasn't made it past age 16 sexually. I suspect she has other emotional issues as well. In fact, what springs to mind immediately for me is that she might have been molested in some way. I'm not a professional psychiatrist, but my job deals with very troubled teens. I've seen girls that have been abused act out very much like that.

Anyway, my advice is: no one needs crazy in their life. Let this one go.

[Moxie]

Okay, I say this as a woman who was sexually abused as a kid. While compassion is always a good thing, it's not this guy's job to coach or counsel this woman. If she's a woman in her 30's and was abused, then it's her responsibility to seek help and treatment to learn how to relate to men in a safe and healthy way.

I don't think his manhood should be connected or related to whether or not he wants to counsel this woman. It's her responsisbility to get help, if in fact she was abused. Which I don't think she was, for the record. I think she uses sex to keep men interested but balks when it comes down to putting up or shutting up.

[trouble]

~~~`it's not this guy's job to coach or counsel this woman. If she's a woman in her 30's and was abused, then it's her responsibility to seek help and treatment to learn how to relate to men in a safe and healthy way.~~~

Exactly. I mean to say this and forgot. We each have to heal our own issues. There are a lot of people out there in the dating pool with unresolved issues. I can't fix them. It is their job, as a responsible adult, to figure out what their issues are and handle them. I don't mean to sound heartless here, but when I was walking around wounded and co-dependent, no one could have fixed me. I was giant sucking black hole looking for someone to feed off of. I had to do the tough work of standing on my own two feet for myself. My friends helped a lot and were very encouraging, but most of the work was done by me, in therapy, and late at night when I'd have panic attacks from being alone, learning to calm myself and stand on my own two feet.

I don't know what this woman's issues are, and I wouldn't hesitate to tell her that her behavior is problematic, but she probably has larger issues than what a dating partner can handle, or should want to.

Some of us need to do some alone time to work on our issues, and it's not hard-hearted to tell someone that.

[michelle]

To the original poster: if it is in fact that case that this woman was sexually abused and you like her, I say hang in there. I was abused as a child and it took many therapy sessions to get to the point where I felt comfortable dating. I was always very upfront about my history with the men that I dated and they were very supportive. All of them hung in ther with me. I was quite moved by the experience.

[Hollie]

Are you sure she's a woman?

[Hollie]

Have you ever seen the Crying Game? He/she was a tease in somewhat of the same way. He/she was incredibly sexy and flirty, but he/she turned out to have a penis. Do you think she(he) may not want to get too close because she(he) may not want to reveal her(his) secret quite yet. She(he) may want to reel you in first, which it sounds like she(he) has, because you're actually willing to entertain this person even though you're obviously disturbed by the teasing.

~Hollie

[Kegs]

Why doesn't the OP have a name or age?

Anyway, good to see Cricket back, and I must admit the thought crossed my mind that maybe you are just a bad kisser. Otherwise, I am with the others saying she sounds like she has some issues around sex, and I agree it really isn't your place to work them out for her.

You are not wrong in thinking that you are being teased. Pulling you onto a mattress in a mattress store (and why would you go there on a second date)? Pinching your nipple in public?! I am actually the opposite - not quite so crass in public, but if I invite you back to my place it isn't for a hug and a kiss. If a guy did to me what she is doing to you, I wouldn't be going back for more - either you hold back or you don't. You sound like a nice, fun guy too - if you want a manhattan date, look me up (although I am assuming you aren't in manhattan with the mattress store story!).

[rick]

I just dated a woman like this for a few weeks. she kept telling me that eventually she would want to have sex and that she really does like it etc. but she had been all over me for the first few dates and then took me- but then we engaged in acts similar to what I remember doing when I was 14/15. things never did work out for us, but anyway I think this just goes to certain anxiety and indecisiveness. and a fear that "things might not work out" or that I would dump her etc. as soon we screwed. the thing is if you keep moving the goal posts and using sex as a tool things might not work out anyway...I honestly think a lot of this type of behavior is rooted in the tradition whereby men supposedly want sex but women just give it up. adults should be thinking as sex as being mutually beneficial- not something that women put up with.

[No time for games]

Being the cynic that I am, I suspect that she already has a boyfriend; not going beyond kissing with you is her way of convincing herself she's not cheating.

In any case, as everyone else here has pointed out, there could be a million different reasons for her behavior. And these reasons are her problem that she needs to resolve.

You are absolutely right to call her on her bullshit. And if, after having the conversation, on the following date she doesn't get more physical with you, just walk away. Cut your losses and don't call her back.

You can spend a lot of time and effort figuring out her issues. Or you can use that time to be dating other, more receptive women. Your choice.

[The Org. Poster]

1) I didn't post my name or age, as the last time I posted a question here I ID'ed myself and was torn to shreds. And it really was a simple "who should do what on a first date" question. One of the main flamers turned out to be a girl I'd gone out with twice, and wasn't even related to the question I had asked Moxie. But if you want to know, my age is 29.

2) She says I'm a great kisser, and I had a mint before... So I don't think its my breath. And, I only use a little tongue, with very few complaints in the past! ;)

3) She did mount me the first night.... So I'm sure I'd know if it were the crying game. She's not a man... Baby (austin powers ref.)

3) Yes, I'm a fun guy and yes I live in Manhattan, and the date was in the city as well, but again I don't want to give away too many identifying details.

4) I am willing to deal with a girls issues and baggage, but only so much and so far. I have a bit myself, but I don't expect a girlfriend to solve all of my problems. At the end of the day, they need to be able to move on before getting into a relationship. And I can't take on the responsibility "fixing" someone 2 dates in, nor should I even have to seriously entertain the idea. I've been with women with serious baggage before, who couldn't move on (trust issues, substance abuse, abusive ex's, etc. Nothing as serious as molestation). Its not an experience I want to repeat. And at 33 I'd expect her to have her sh!t together. I'd be more than willing to be a good friend to her if that was the case, but if she couldn't move on from it I wouldn't want to date her. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh or offends you, but I'm being honest with my feeling here.

5) Yes, I misspelled" woman" as women a few times. Also "nibbled" as "nippled". And I'm sure I did the whole "your" instead of "you're" thing too. Did I mention I have a BA in Writing??? I wrote the question at work and just kind of pounded it out, so sorry for the spelling errors!

[Brad]

And the horror story that plays in my mind is that court case in Maryland...consensual sex, but the women withdraws consent during the act, the guy stops after
5 seconds "give or take", & the court find him guilty of "first-degree Rape".

http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2008/04/md-court-expand.html

OK, wait! Let's clarify this. Two guys are holding a woman down. They threaten her and say "let us have sex with you or we will hurt/kill you" so she stops struggling (rape #1).

First guy rapes her, then the 2nd guy tries to - she struggles and he gives up.

Tha question before the court: is the 2nd attempt a 2nd rape or included in the 1st rape count? They decided it was a 2nd rape, and I'm glad they did.

This is HARDLY a case that applies to your life/situation, really don't worry about it. Accept a "no" as a "no" and don't read that idiot blogger at USA Today who is looking to make men the new victim group.

[org. poster]

Not to get off track, but are we talking about the same case?

http://m.cnn.com/cnn/ne/top_video/detail/101962;jsessionid=3C3E38FA7AD7A41EE35270519BBE31A3

[ShyGal]

If you like the girl, see her one more time and tell her you think she is sending you mixed signals and you want to know why. Then, depending on her answer, you can decide if she is worth seeing again or not.

I think you should stop worrying about someone "crying rape" on you. It is a very rare occurrence. If you are a reasonable person and a girl wants you to stop, you will know it and will probably be turned off enough to want to yourself. I don't know anything about the case you mentioned, but from the comments below the article, it sounds like the journalist majorly misrepresented the case.

[Org. Poster]

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2008/04/22/mg.morrow.eiglarsh.int.cnn

Sorry, link didn't work.

I don't want to get off topic and turn this into a flame war. I only brought up the subject as a "horror story" I.E. VERY HIGHLY unlikely, but something else I would need to worry about. Watch the video and comment further if you want.

[VJ]

I think there's every possibility of something seriously psychologically wrong with this woman, and again, just dating her or trying to understand her as a friend is not going to 'fix it'.

MKelly in her(?) response has plenty of really loving suggestions here but again, you're not a therapist, and really should not be playing one w/o some decent training. No one needs to be occupied with this nonsense in a relationship just starting out. In a pre-existing relationship as a result of some trauma? Perhaps.

Still, there's no sense trying to figure out the crazy/games. You might tell her that you're trying to understand what's going on and what she's trying to tell you, but I think that's a lost cause here too. For whatever reason of her own, she Knows the Score and just wants to keep on playing her game her way.

I think Mox & Trouble & others are right here. Cut your losses early here to preserve your own sanity. Perhaps she'll be able to figure out her issues with plenty of professional help sometime in the future, IF needed or required. You have no duty or responsibility to try and fix or repair her. She's not a friend or family member. She's an adult who's more than a bit confused about adult roles. I suspect that she may have plenty of secrets, but again it's not your job to figure this all out.

Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

[Roxy]

First of all, the very first comment by amen is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

Ok on to your problem. You said in your post that you don't mind going out on a date and NOT going upstairs.

So if you decide to pursue this, be honest. One suggestion would be at the end of your next date, tell her that you really like her and think it's better that you stay out of apartments until you're both ready to get physical.

That way you'll sorta be taking on some of the blame, which should ease her tensions... then you can go home and rub one out.

[Brad]

Here is the actual opinion from the Maryland court:

http://mdcourts.gov/opinions/coa/2008/14a07.pdf?loc=interstitialskip

All 76 pages aren't useful, just read "Facts and Procedural History".

I think these animals should have been convicted on both counts, not just one. But you are correct, this interpretation is new.

[hb]

I actually think that you don't like her personality or appearance that much. It sounds to me like you are just frustrated from dating, specifically her.

You could go out with her again, if you like her enough and have a direct (goodbye) conversation with her, since you're ready to leave anyway. Or just end it on the phone.

I think your instincts are telling you that she's a cocktease and something is terribly off. Yep, probably. We just won't know if she's crazy/playing games, a cock tease, completely oblivious, or suffers from previous abuse.

[anon]

Sorry Orig Poster but Brad is right on this one. Read the original opinion linked to in the USA Today piece. This is why I hate the modern news media - giving sound bites without explaining the details/nuances behind the arguments.

We now return to our norminally scheduled topic.

[anon]

normally not norminally

[BK]

I think that this woman is potentially a virgen, or has had limited sexual experiences that were not positive. I engage in some of the same behavior as this woman did for that reason.