In Defense of Older Women

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Name: Lorraine | Location: NYC, New York  |Question: I take great offense to how you depict women in their forties on your blog. If we choose to date younger men then that's our right. Why are you so judgmental? Are you jealous of those of us who can attract the younger, attractive men?  We have a right to choose who we date and we shouldn't be judged by anyone. Least of all another woman who is almost 40 and single herself.  |Age: 46

Oh, Lorraine. Why is it that when a woman voices an opinion about another woman, she's deemed jealous? For the record, I've always said that I have no problem with two people of varying age ranges get together as long as they are honest with themselves of why they are in that relationship. Even if that reason is that the attention and the sex makes them feel more desired. What I take issue with is these women who delude themselves into thinking that they are somehow deserving of praise for nailing a guy in his 20's or who refuse to confront or admit the possibility that the reason they go for younger men is because they don't have a choice.

Here's my thought...if you're 45, 48, 50 and you're a woman, then you're probably hoping to date a man 45-55. Well, those guys (for the most part) either already have children or do not want them or have given up trying. They're in a place where they are okay with the idea of never having kids. So, that one huge hurdle that we face when we're in our late 30's and early 40's is taken out of the equation. So, if that' the case, the question is...why wouldn't these men want to date someone closer to their age? Well, there are a number of reasons:

She's jaded/bitter. As I've always said, men want a woman who makes them feel good. They want someone who has learned how to take care of themselves and who will allow them to try and help take care of them without any sort of defensiveness. They want someone who is positive and open. They don't want to scale these ridiculously high walls that we all tend to build around ourselves as we grow older. In other words, they're lazy and don't want to do a shit load of work.

She doesn't have her life together: As I've said before, I have a small window left in my life to take my business to the next level. At 35, my choice to host happy hours is interesting and cool. Not so cool at 39 , 40. A man doesn't want to take up a relationship with a woman who can not take care of herself financially or who hasn't established herself in some way. That includes having a financial plan. Sure, there are those guys who like the whole "rescue" fantasy. That's fine. But most guys, by the time they've reached 40, have worked their ass off. They want someone they can spoil, sure, but they also want someone who they believe doesn't "need" their financial assistance. They didn't work all those years just to swoop in and save the damsel in distress from financial ruin. The want a woman with focus and direction and who have something of their own to offer. They want an equal partnership. They don't want a woman who's been laid off from her job and struggling to pay her bills. They don't want a woman who's got a pile high of debt because they know, once they get married, they acquire that debt, too. At 25 you can get away with being financially irresponsible. You can't get away with it at 35, 40, 45. You just can't. A 30 year old guy won't care that a 45 year old woman is a financial mess because he probably is, too. The 30 year old man won't care so much about the cynical attitude because they don't intend to marry these "cougars." When you know there's an escape clause, it's amazing what you'll tolerate.

If these older women are so damn confident and secure, then why wouldn't they attract a man their age who brings the same to the table? That makes no sense. Would a 49 year old man who's got his life together and is attractive and confident naturally be attracted to a 45 year old woman who is the same?

My issue with the "cougar" craze is that a large majority of these "cougars" don't cop to the real reason that they are attracted to younger men. And that is, that the men their age don't want them because they have certain detractors and/or they've grown frustrated with trying to meet men their own age. And they find that there's some sort of cache with the idea of sleeping with someone 10-15 years their junior.  Sorry, but screwing a 25 or 30 year old isn't a huge accomplishment. Reality is that most of these "cougars" go for younger men because they either don't have a choice or because they are not secure or confident in their own right.

YOUR THOUGHTS

Comments

[amen]

Seems like we pat people on the back for having sex with x number of people,who those people are, look like etc..

To me it's a contest to see who can bang younger, richer and more popular, it's like being in high school again.

I would much rather spend energy on my own life than to use it to chase x or y type.

[JC]

Younger men FUCK BETTER.

Older guys routinely go for young girls because they are HOTTER. Same dynamic when a rich, succesful, independent woman goes where the FUCKING IS BEST. Can I translate again: Younger Men Fuck Better.

You are naive Ms. Author. All the world doesn't want your picket fence vision of life.

[Moxie]

No, dear, you're just bitter and deluded. Older guys go for younger women because they are younger. Period. I've seen plenty of "hot" women in their late 30's to late 40's. They get overlooked because they're older.

It's so pathetic to listen to women try and justify their choice of younger men by arguing that "men do it all the time." The implication in that statement is that when men do it they are somehow pathetic or dealing with some kind of midlife crisis.. So, guess what? That makes it equally sad for the older woman who pursues younger men.

Crow all you want about how younger men fuck better. Sure, they have more stamina, but I'd rather one great session with a guy who can last 30 minutes and hold off til I finish than 3 sessions with a guy who can last 10 and usually comes before I so 1 out of 3 times.

Great. Young guys are good in bed. So, um, what do you do the other 23 hours of the day? If it's just the sex that keeps you together, then doesn't that somehow mean that the younger guy doesn't deem you relationship material? In which case, why are you even with him to begin with?

Fine mox, but what about us women who are early 40s making good buck, very in shape and still very attractive and NOT jaded? You may see them few and far between, but i know a lot of them. And to tell you the truth, the best thing we can do is be positive. You have NEVER said a good word about any woman over 40 here and maybe you do meet jaded, delusional, bitter. Maybe you need a night out with me and my friends. We are positive, upbeat and know that if we are lucky enough to find someone he'll also be lucky enough to have found us. Being over 40 is NOT a death sentence in the search for love. Maybe the OP just wants you to SOMETIMES be on the other side of the argument, esp being that you ARE in our age group...

[partygirl]

Perhaps it is a NYC thing....I am 90 miles down the road in Philadelphia where 6 of my girlfriends are married to men 5+ years younger than them. MARRIED. Both of my brothers wives are older than them... My mom was 36 when she began dating my step-dad, who was 32 at the time (and wanted to have kids)...He is still madly in love with her 30 years later...These are all *regular* people and they are happy. Go figure!

Also, I don't believe younger men are better. My 38 yr old friend comes within 30 seconds and doesn't even do anything for me. My 48 yr old lover can go for over an hour and pleases me multiple times and has NO problem getting it up. I've been on/off lovers with him since he was 28 and he's ONLY gotten better honey. Younger men have better bodies, but they lack in other areas so I agree with mox on this one.

[Moxie]

"You may see them few and far between, but i know a lot of them. And to tell you the truth, the best thing we can do is be positive."

I agree. There are many great women with their shit together who are in their late 30's and 40's who are deserving of a great guy. Unfortunately, those who have dealt with their issues and taken care of themselves emotionally and spiritually get lumped in with the ones who haven't. There's so many of the ones who don't have their shit together and who make excuses for their poor choices and emotional baggage them that all the ones who don't do those things automatically get overlooked.

If I sound harsh it's because I'm tired of other women fucking it up for the rest of us.

I'm tired of women having sex on the first date because they don't value themselves enough. The more there are out there, the more men will be conditioned to expect it and will judge a woman who doesn' spread her legs in exchange for two martinis as "playing games."

I'm tired of the women who use men for expensive first dates knowing they have no interest in them because it's better than staying home alone on a Friday night.

I'm tired of women who walk around ashamed of their age because then it make sit look like there is something wrong with not being 25 anymore.

I'm tired of women who are so threatened by other women that they have to become aggressive and overbearing to "prove" how confident they are.

I'm tired of women who haven't dealt with their shit who blame their loneliness on the fact that men are all just shallow pigs and refuse to be self-aware and accountable for their own behavior.

I'm sure there are a handful of older women/younger men couples that are sincere and true and healthy. No doubt. But people use these few examples to try and make rules when really they are exceptions to the rules.

[joe]

Maybe women are turning into more like men. They don't need to get married and they don't even want kids. They are successful and want to enjoy their lives. Good for them.

As a guy in his thirties, I would date women any age as long as she has a great personality and doesn't feel entitled. However, Moxie is right that we tend to go younger not just because they are younger but given all else is equal there are a larger number of single women in their 20s and they tend to be more attractive. I think there are women in their 50s who look great but I'm sorry if I am being shadow but these girls would probably have to work harder and they probably looked better in their 20s.

[Cherylyne]

Well this is refreshing for a change. I am in college at 52 and as far as I know look like everyone else so far. I've had guys 30 years younger than me hit on me and wonder why because I don't think I'm hot, and I don't think it's all about that, must be some other reason. Anyway, I haven't been dating for about a year and a half and that is because I am too busy, graduating in a year. It isn't so easy to get in the job market either if you're not a 20 year old hottie, the world is shallow. Last guy I was with was 35, and no ties just sex, and that's the way I like it right now, relationships take alot of work and I simply don't have the time, sounds like a guy huh, oh well, just at this point in my life not wanting to settle down, done that. Now if an older gentleman and I mean within a couple of years of my age came along who wasn't interested in someone 20 years younger than him came along I might make some time, probably not, got stuff to do, ya never know though. Alot of the 20 some girls I go to school with are with guys 10 to 20 years older than them and it's because maybe they are not the best looking and it's less work to get a grateful older guy who like you said will take care of them financially also I have friends who are beautiful at 20 and feel too mature for guys their own age and date soemone 10 to 20 years older, and that my friends is why 50 year old men still get 20 year old girls for a while, won't last even if they marry them. Let's face it as we get older and may have been plain beautiful in our youth, now we have to work a hell of alot harder to just look good, wait until perimenopause hits another fun filled curse from hell. Give up all food, sit in the refridgerator and your whole body rearranges itself happens to mean too in body shape and they get more emotional. I say you 20 year olds stay within your age group we'll stay within ours and life will be good. this reminds me of a "Sex and the City" episode with Candace Bergen, stay the hell out of our small wading pool. Well that's my words of wisdom for the day.

Right here on this blog there are plenty of women who do indeed have their act together and are great fantastic women. I know I am missing a lot of names but whenever I read comments from Keggs or Lis.how those two come to mind first I know there are plenty of women who are happy with their lives and are not jealous of other women. I was lucky enough to find my Shining Knight through business so we never had to deal with all the BS that gets talked about here all the time. I still say that is the best way to actually get to know someone's true character before dating so you know if they are someone you can honestly have a relationship with and if you get to know them first and see they are a good person even if it doesn't work out you both deal with it like adults. I have plenty of friends who are secure and happy and are both single and married. Of all my friends truly there was only one who was jealous and all the awful things that people talk about here and I no longer allow her in my circle. I got tired of dealing with her petty BS. She was only one bad apple out of a lot of great women. There are plenty of happy, well adjusted, attractive females out there and who also have their acts together financially. Women do expect more these days but I think that is because if they have been single into their 30's they have had to learn to take care of themselves and once you successfully take care of yourself I think you also expect anyone you become involved with to be successfully taking care of themselves and not in debt etc.

I do agree with Moxie in that women have to STOP sleeping with men on first, second, third etc., dates. You need to get to know someone if you are going to have a happy successful relationship and although there are a few guys here who say it doesn't matter if you sleep together immediately they are just trying to enforce an overall attitude of getting women to sleep with them. True relationship happiness comes from developing a deep bond and connection with another human being which only happens over time. For the one girl who slept with her husband on her first date there are 1,000,000 girls who slept with a guy the first time and never heard from them again.

If every women could just make a vow to herself to be happy for each and every birthday God gives her the world would be such a better place. You can be beautiful, thin, great personality and all wonderful characteristics at any age and be attractive to a lot of different people but accept your age and embrace it and stop trying to pretend with the "But I look 10, 15 years younger than I am". Lindsey Lohan's Mother is a perfect example of a woman who is very attractive at 48 years old but she always looks like an idiot because she is trying to make herself look like Lindsey. Nothing and I mean nothing ages a woman more than trying to look younger. Everyone should try and look the best they can but we have all seen it and rolled our eyes at the women and men for that matter trying to look younger and it always ages them for sure!

[OhRick]

Please... apply some sort of tag, name, or non de plume to your post.

With anonymous posting, it's a little more challenging to comment specifically to your contribution without extensive quoting. (I tend to take up enough space as it is!)

"All of our lines are currently busy. If this is an emergency, please hang up and dial 911."

Thank you!

I guess the whole concept of criteria for love is a little strange and maybe what the info age has brought us. What happened to REALLY loving a person? Not based on age, job, status, etc. Personally, I want the man that if i were to God forbid be stricken with something dire he'd be there for me. I don't want a man just with me for my body or looks or things that are not tangible. It is more epidemic here than in other places. I've said it before, age shouldn't/doesn't matter (seperating child-bearing years from non of course). If you go to say, Paris, you will see wildly sexy women of all ages with men that are both younger and older than them. And knowing the culture like I do, these pairings are based on attraction but also how good a time they have together and values. I don't know ANY of them where then man asks a woman her age to qualify whether he wants to date her or not. We are far too youth obsessed, but I'll tell you, get me and trouble and a few other 40s gals in a roundtable and i KNOW FOR A FACT not one of us would want to be 20s again. And all of the women I know say life gets better every year. Every man in the world may not want you but you definitely don't need that. I myself would never be a cougar - i just don't find 20-something men interesting or even sexy any more. 30s? sure but i prefer mid-late 30s and haven't yet dated above my own age (43) so don't know about those guys. But I would hate to go into a relationship thinking this can't work b/c we are so different in age. If you are into me then fine, if you are not then so be it. I was travelling abroad last week and met a man 9 yrs younger who really seemed interested. He asked me my age and I told him. He of course looked young to me but he though I was younger than he was (no I'm not getting into THAT conversation). Anyway, he was 34 and divorced with 2 kids and his ex-wife was a bit older than him. Long story short, he wondered why I didn't think that we'd have much in common as I was the one who thought the difference in age was a bit far. Not ALL people as they get older want to be with much younger people. Personally, I happen to think there are a lot of women who take good care of themselves (without obvious surgical help) and I don't find men of the same age equal to that. Believe me, I'd love to.

[OhRick]

To whom it may concern...

If you can't find quality men in their forties, then as Moxie infers... the issue is probably with you!

[karen]

I agree with everything Moxie said except that women in their 40's are jaded, bitter etc. I think the main reason why pople think that Im younger is because of my attitude. My old boss would always shake his head in disbelief and said I did not act like most my age. I'm not told Im am beautiful or anything that is striking but my smile and the way my face lights up. My being positive and generally warm to most people.

I have seen women in their 30's who are full of complaints with their health and always having an issue with somebody.

Truthfully, men my age? I know I will sound shallow--- do not appeal to me in the least. They do seem too old for me. Their attitude.. no passion for anything any more. No zest for much. Ages them terribly. My ex husband was younger than me. I dated younger even in High School. Its always been an appeal for me.

But again I'm not looking for marriage or babies. It does make quite a difference in the whole approach and relationship......

[Anonymous Redhead]

Oh Rick, okay you can slap me upside my head that was me at 3:11 and I forgot to put my name. Having found my Shining Knight should have told you that it was me!

My husband is quite a few years older than me and I would not have it any other way. I have always thought Older Men were by far more interesting and the best at everything that matters at least I know my husband is the best.

I recently read a really great quote that I intend to remember as my birthdays pass ( and I hope God gives me lots and lots of them) the quote said "40 is the Old Age of Youth and 50 is the YOUTH of Old Age". I love that quote and I think we would all do well to remember it!

Hope all has been well with you Oh Rick.

[trouble]

I have to say that I don't see any connection these days between age and skill in the bedroom. I dated a 27-year-old whose sex drive was far lower than mine. I've dated guys who were in their mid 30s who couldn't even hold a candle to my 40-year-old boyfriend, in looks or skills. I think that while many men may experience a decline in their later years, they more than compensate for it in experience and knowledge.

I have come to the conclusion that if a woman or a man doesn't want a person their own age, it's often due to issues they aren't addressing. Most often, it has something to do with not accepting their own aging process.

[trouble]

By the way, the claim that all women in their late 30s-early 40s are bitter...huge cop out. I've known ton of men in that age group who are just as dysfunctional and bitter. Excluding an entire decade of people from consideration when it comes to dating is just a red flag that YOU have issues...not them. And, I'm speaking to men and women here.

[wild irish rose]

"As I've said before, I have a small window left in my life to take my business to the next level. At 35, my choice to host happy hours is interesting and cool. Not so cool at 39 , 40." ~ Moxie

It's sad to say but I do agree with this statement. With all due respect to what you do, Moxie, I think you're right to get away from the speed dating and singles events. It lowers your credibility as a business person.

[ScottyQ]

Moxie said it all.

Paris should not be the ideal for that perfect love but the ideal for mistresses, affairs & loose, loose boxes and boundaries for sex & love. Its the fashion trend & tradition lead by most every leaders they produced.

[Jack]

partygirl - SIX of your friends married guys more than FIVE years younger? I call flame. Statistically, that is practically impossible, when the average husband is 2-3 years older than the average wife. I know of very few marriages where the husband isn't 1-4 years older than the wife.

[Jack]

But anyway, as a 30 year old, we like cougars because of the easy sex. Many guys my age have little to no standards and will bang practically anything, and older women tend to give it up more easily. Now it's hot if you're 35-45, but once you hit 50, please knit me a sweater or something instead.

[GoodEnough]

Enough!!!! I have been reading your bashing of over 40 women for a while and haven't commented, but this is getting ridiculous. All the poster asked was why you are hard on over 40 women who date younger men. Your first comment was that you assume that these women want to date a 45-55 year old man. Why? Where is that written? I used to always date guys my age, but as I have gotten older but apparently my attitude has not, the guys who are attracted to me, and vice versa, seem to be almost always younger than me. Secondly, again who says that an over 40 women is jaded and bitter and that her finances are a mess? People can be together, or not, at any age. A number is a number, and it indicates that you've had some life experiences-- not what those experiences are. Seriously Moxie, I have to think that you are confronting some real fears about yourself and projecting it onto the dreaded "Oh My God what will happen to me after 40?" question. Time to try to take a step back and think about the message you are putting out there. So much of your advice is sound and practical; in this one area your perspective seems off. BTW, I too hate the whole "cougar" credo of "scoring" a younger guy, and I am not talking about bragging about nailing a guy 10-15 years younger. But someone who is a reasonable number of years younger, who happens to be compatible with an older woman? As the French say, Vive la difference.

sorry Jack - 20something women give it up WAY easier than any group. College and just post will sleep with ANYONE not even know their name...

[trouble]

I have to affirm what partygirl is saying to some degree. Three of my couple-friends, including my brother and his wife, have age splits where the guy is 4+ years younger than the wife, and they are all married. Happily, for the most part, I might add.

[Mira]

I am sorry but any 40 yo who does not "get it" (mentally especially) by when they are 40 is a very sad & bitter state indeed (see above what moxie said "she gets it" & how goodenough answered "still didn't get it"). Why moxie's views are sought after by singles & married people alike.

Another thing to point out to goodenough... why are YOU segregating only the 40 yo... why are YOU so "Affected" (mirror, mirror on the wall theory?)?

Can't you read what a 30 yo male already answered for you??? The attraction is THERE DEFINITELY (BUT read past that attraction please for any 40 yo who is mentally smarter.... ONLY for SEX... not BECAUSE of YOUR hotter "but wrinkly" bod or your pretty face or a sexier more confident you).
MEN will bang ANYTHING a.k.a. that anything can mean even a goat (anything you can think of)... if a 40 yo is WILLING to identify herself to a level of that goat or meat in the fridge... well, GREAT COMPLIMENTS that "attraction" is.

Yes, it is possible that age does not matter, that "Man-made" effect over "Nature's intention" BUT even a "Man-made" DATA also show to lean more the "Nature's way" of most mates are 1 - 5 years in age difference (+ or -, younger or older).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

"20something women give it up WAY easier than any group. College and just post will sleep with ANYONE not even know their name..." --??

This line is called "generalizing" and quite untrue. Maybe you have been exposed to college porn a bit too much or even hanging with the "bad crowd".

Sorry that line did never applied to me nor my niece who is in college age today (graduating MS actually)... maybe it affects only your "kind" or "type" of people perhaps? You know like birds of a feather flocks together? Or that duck that want to be just like those chickens it lives with?

[the critic]

I don't know too many women who are in their 40s that are single to be honest with you. But someone here observed that maybe it's NYC. I tend to think that is probably the case. I think when people (men and women) live in NY in their 20's and 30's they find it's so easy to meet new people and have all the hot guys/gals lined up around the corner, have all the sex you want, etc. As we age, people pair up and it's like a game of musical chairs, and those left standing are SOL. I am 45 and I date young women because, as I said, I don't know any single women in their 40s. Seriously. Where would I ever meet them? They are probably divorced and/or have kids and have moved out of town.

[the critic]

And another thing just occurred to me: if women date younger men strictly because they think that the sex will be better, they must be somewhat one-dimensional. You're looking for a relationship and the top priority is how many times you can get boned in one day? Believe me, there are guys in their 20's who are not great lovers. I met a girl who was engaged to this guy in his twenties. I was in my mid thirties. She complained about his disinterest in sex and how she always had to lead him by the hand. When I got through with her she was complaining about TOO MUCH sex!

I'm 45 and I still think about sex almost as much as when I was 18. Funny how women will complain that you think about it too much or not enough. As far as performance, sure sometimes I get out of shape through lack of practise but once I am having sex on the regular it's amazing how quickly you get your stamina back.

My ex-girlfriend was 32 when we dated and our personalities clashed. However the one thing that she loved about me and would come back for is sex. If it weren't for other issues we would be able to have an NSA relationship, but then again those same issues are why we broke up in the first place.

Critic, I'm a 43yo single woman and I agree that a man your age is usually better in bed, but my problem has been that men in early 40s even late 30s don't think ENOUGH about sex. I'd like it once a day every day min if I could BUT barring that, I want a man who is very interested in sex, not ONLY interested in sex, but within the relationship the sex is important. As we get older I think there are a lot of shifts in priorities. What I do miss from my younger days is the "sex all the time" aspect of my relationships. Maybe that is why the "cougar" thing is appealing. However, I have no desire to date a man (or sleep with) younger than 35 and even that would be a bit on the young side for me. I do care about other things than "getting boned all the time" as you say... But there are days (being not in a relatinship right now and only having FWB sex once a month) that I wish i could have a week-long sexfest! ;)

[Robert]

Wow! Lots of heated response to this one. I agree with Moxie. I know whereof I speak. I've been divorced for about three years. I do have quite a few platonic female friends.
I'm 49, but I'm told I look great. ( yeah, everyone says that, but I do hear it a lot)
Whenever I started dating someone new, one question was always asked by my female friends: how old is she? If I told them mid-30's, the response was very negative. IT was as if I rejected women closer to me in age. I hadn't but found that they had too many issues. So to prove a point, I let my female friends set me up. Each time, even when the woman was very attractive and in good shape, there were issues.
Sometimes, when I'd go out with someone close to me in age, or even older, the reaction was always : "yes-you may be one of the good ones, but you'll dump me for a younger woman".
Ilive in Manhattan in an area full of women in their 40's and up. They all have so many issues. If I casually dated, I was referred to as a "slut". Pretty funny stuff.
I think part of the problem is that past a certain age, women forget how to deal with men. They have too many preconceived notions.
I still don't focus on age-it's how someone behaves, looks, and how they've weathered the trials of getting older.
I've been dating someone who is about eight years younger than me. Everyone likes her. Her age is about right. Younger, but not so much so that my female friends become judgemental. But frankly, I got lucky. She's a terrific person, and knows how to make me happy-which prompts me to try and make her happy. Simple, right?
Moxie is right. IF a woman goes out with a younger man, there are reasons that are a little complicated: ego, fear of aging and then there are the issues of the younger guy. HE feels a little inadequate competing for young women. The older woman is thrilled and flattered to have a younger guy. Either way, people like this are together for the wrong reasons. And, women who are age appropriate for a guy in his late forties or early fifties do get rejected by the older guy. It isn't just because younger women look better. It's also because of fewer issues.
I've been through it all. I've dated women in their mid-30's to early 50's, and it's not so much about age-it's more about attitude. I know-been there and done that.

Robert you had me until "The older woman is thrilled and flattered to have a younger guy. Either way, people like this are together for the wrong reasons." i don't know what kind of difference in age you are talking about but why is a woman with a younger man "for the wrong reasons" but you dating mid-30s at almost 50 not "for the wrong reasons"

The double standard here is RIDICULOUS. 5 yrs either way for either sex is not really "an age difference" - you grew up with the same cultural references and music etc. More than 5 yrs you go out of that comfort zone and it's more speculative as to "motives" MAYBE. But to lump every woman over 40 as having ISSUES is horrendous and I guess you guys, or even gals, just don't know any healthy older women. Come out with me and a few of my friends from 37-50 and you will learn and definitely finally change your tune about "issues". A know a 29 yr old with more issues than any of my over 35 friends. I'm not saying there aren't women with issues I'm saying please don't lump everyone in. As moxie said, those women are what make we who are completely happy and fulfilled with life and would like to meet that special guy, get passed over.

[Moxie]

I totally agree that a 5 year difference in age is not an issue. You're still, for the most part, in the same generation. It's not just about having things in common. It's about have lifestyles and core beliefs in common.

What annoys me most about this whole discussion is that when the opposite trend is mentioned - older men/younger women - it's almost always spoken about with a tone of disapproval. When I've posted letters from deluded men (and Robert, hop on that bus, because you are not 49. I've met you. You're easily in your early to mid 50's)

Even the that other organizer who rips off our copy/event ideas, Illana from Real Live People Party, who offers those ridiculous Cougar speeddating events sends that conflicting message. She'll happily offer an event for older women and younger men because "there's a need" out there (translation: I want to run one event a month where I actually have a chance of getting attention) but refuses to host one for older men/younger women citing that she hasn't had enough of a response or request for that. (Bullshit.) Translation: Fuck all you guys who don't want me, I'll show you. You men who date younger women and not me are all assholes.

If there's a double standard to be discussed, then lets discuss that one. The one where 40+ women pat each other on the back for getting a 30 year old to buy her a drink but then sit in corners at parties and bitch about how men are shallow because they only want younger women. The whole cougar movement is fueled by nothing but resentment. Not sex drive.

[rose]

Lorraine is right. You are being judgmental, not to mention being hypocritical. You should only speak for yourself and let other fortysomething y/o women who have more courage to let go of their hangups explore what is out there. That's their choice and i'm sure they can live with whatever consequences that comes up with it. We all should be able to live our life the way we choose it. Honey, we only live once!

[OhRick]

Anonymous Redhead...

I suspected that was your thoughts, but hesitated to assume?

Now, A-Red, I would never slap you upside your head - Turning you over my knee, would be far more likely! :)

I appreciate your identifying yourself. I'm doing great and wish the same for you and your shining knight!

"40 is the Old Age of Youth and 50 is the YOUTH of Old Age" Wonderful quote. Excellent perspective. Though, we are supposedly living better and longer?

That being said... we still... do not have to go gently in to that good night!

None of us has to behave in a predetermined way, or limit ourselves by the perceptions and standards of others... we just have to be real with - and true to - ourselves and others.

Seeing clearly is the most difficult challenge we can often face, at any age. You don't always have to ACT your age, but no matter how you act you will always BE your age. We all age differently. Change what you can and learn to live graciously... with what you cannot.

When I was a young surfer, I would carve the waves of California, Mexico and Hawaii. With reckless and athletic abandon, I would dual with Mother Ocean... the bigger the waves the better! Now, I enjoy the simple, less animated perfection of the ride. I notice all the details of the environment around me... the sea-spray... the force of the swell... the breeze, the blue sky and warmth of the sun. Even the nearby dolphins who might share a brief set with an old long-boarder. Almost, as if they instinctively sense that I won't aggressively turn in to them.

It's no longer a contest… it's an effortless, fully present pleasure.

Not unlike making love to a woman. Where once you were just pounding away with a singular, driven, and often self-centered purpose. Now, you notice and savor every detail. You can appreciate the full measure and complexity of feminine response that was always available to you… if you would have only noticed? Instead of trying to get to a goal, you realize you are already there. Enjoy every delicious nuance of the sweet journey. You can easily get lost in that wave... all too often ignored in the more shallow angst of youth. The Swing of the unseasoned, becomes the Waltz, the Tango, and the Rumba of experience.

At the end of the road, you will regret more, those things you didn't do then the things you did? Life is not about finding your perfect match, it's about finding yourself. When you do, others will be more attracted to you, for you!

As humans, we are all drawn to healthy and positive.

Okay... I'm drifting here! But, it was a fun ride!

Now, what were we arguing about?

[rose]

Correction Please! I'm not the anonymous redhead. I don't have to hide behind any aliases. I just think that people need to mind their own business and live their lives the way they please! Hypocrisy and self righteousness only reap bitterness in life!

[LadyCloud]

Re: ageing (cause that's really what this blog is about) ChiRick's comments make a wonderful ending to the discussion. "What were we arguing about?"

Words I've always lived by: "you'll never be as young as you are today". End of story. We all age. Life moves forward. Those days behind us will never return. Let them go. They may have been good or bad, but today is all that's real. So are you living, loving the way you want?

Hopefully, we all move toward our own personal happiness, whatever that may be: younger man, older woman, younger woman, older man...does it really matter? No, I don't think so. What matters is that we are happy. Because happiness naturally multiplies itself. And it makes your world a better place. Whether it be a moment, a month, or a lifetime, embrace the happiness, whatever packaging it comes in.

You will never be as young as you are today.

[OhRick]

Rose...

Consider yourself corrected! I was addressing someone... many post before your little ray of sunshine. Tardy, in my response... you managed to make it about you!

So, hows minding your own business working for you?

LadyCloud...

"You'll never be as young as you are today" Good words to remember, as we seek our Happy-Happy, Joy-Joy!

[JET]

Moxie said, "I'm tired of the women who use men for expensive first dates knowing they have no interest in them because it's better than staying home alone on a Friday night."

Why would it be better to spend an evening with someone you have no interest in than to stay home alone? That is one of the things that I don't like about the early stages of dating: spending time with people I don't care about when I could be home doing more interesting things, like laundry. I only do it when I am looking for a relationship and hoping that maybe this guy will turn out to be someone that I could care about and that a relationship could develop. It is very hard work to weed through the guys who seem to have potential to find one that really does.

[Jimmy]

I am a 35 year old man who loves dating older women. They are much more fun, grounded , and mature,than "some" of these spoiled, self-righteous 30 something(s). I mean seriously...YIKES!!! I have 6 older sisters who are all in their 40's which could have very likey attributed to my dating preferences. These were the people who taught me about women, and how to treat them. Their friends were always so HOT also; which to a teenage boy who always had a house full of unrelated hot 20 year old women around. Made it difficult to want "girls". I wanted WOMEN!! I think in my particular scenario, being attracted to older women was inevitable. I can certainly hold my own where dating older women is concerned. I think anyone who judges people for who they prefer to date is an idiot! Age is a number the signifies when you were born, not who you are, or what you like, or what makes you happy! You never know someone until you walk in their shoes. Life is all about the experiences; the more we experience the more we appreciate life, and the people in it! The "age" of the person you LOVE is totally irrelevant!

Is it me or does Jimmy sounds like a woman (possibly in the discussed age group trying to save grace) with that "seriously" & the "yikes"? And the "I mean" & the "I think"? Plus the fact that any men would find any women over the legal (sometimes illegal; under) age of 18 to be a mature woman enough to F***; would do anything with 2 legs basically... and when has a 30 something becomes not a woman? Now I would understand if Jimmy tend to have a feminine side just because he has 6 older sisters... err hmmm.

[Moxie]

"I have 6 older sisters who are all in their 40's "

Lie, not to mention almost impossible to get pregnant that many times, that quickly after each pregnancy. It takes almost a year fro a woman's body and cycle to normalize after each pregnancy. Your mother's reproductive system would be incredibly screwed up.

"I think anyone who judges people for who they prefer to date is an idiot!"

Which is why this busted psycho wrote her comment to begin with. She wanted to be able to say this. Well, I don't care. I think older women who yap about how they love dating younger men are pathetic. You screw them because you don't have a choice because the men your age don't want you because you're probably fucked up in some way. That opinion won't be changing. Hear me Gail? Illana? Lisa?

[TT T]

I've mentioned this before and I'll say it again, too many damn rules. Who cares if you date older or younger. When you are in the dating game actively like many of us, age is, for the most part irrelevant. We look for connection and chemistry, not the resume.

Secondly, and lastly, older women (define as you like) can be incredibly..incredibly..attractive. I happen to work with a few (lucky me). Once in a while I spot one on the street and boy, they do stand out. But...they are very rare. To the women who stated that she and all of her friends are over 40 and very hot, please post a link with a photo. I truly want to believe you.. T

[RL]

As a newly single 40-something female (after an LTR lasting 6 years), I have found "dating" somewhat of a challenge at this stage of the game.
Sure, I'd like a guy close to me in age (give or take 5 years) but a lot of the "never married" ones are in the "Oh My God I've suddenly realized I want children" category, which rules me out. Technically I could still have a child at 43, but I'm not interested in that being the primary motivation for getting together with some one. And at 43-45 I really don't think it's a great idea to be trying to reproduce, given the risks etc.
So then you go onto the guys who already have kids & don't want any more kids - but a lot of them are "separated" or "still trying to get over their divorce". Translation - they want to make up for lost time & f_ck as many women as they can (as an opiate for loneliness & grief and/or ego-boost, but they don't realize that a succession of random women in their bed is NOT the solution). No thank you.
Even if you're "OK" with what I call "hit & run sex"... quite frankly, I'd rather have it with a 30 year old who doesn't need Viagra shots to keep things going!
If I have to settle for "hit & run sex", please Dear Lord, let it be mind-blowingly great "hit & run sex"!
So as much as I have never "gone younger" when it comes to men in the past, right now I'm thinking it is a pretty darn good idea that is definitely worth exploring... :)
I am keeping an open mind & my options open!

[Lulu]

At 41, single and assumed 10 yrs younger by appearance, I am constantly approached by men between 25 and 45 yrs old. All I can see when looking into the eyes of what I would have called blazing hot hard bodied guys in their 20's and yes, I confess, 30's - is a future filled with picking up their crap off the floor and having to explain offhand references to Blazing Saddles or Holy Grail. I honestly think sex is so much more amazing with a man in his 40's...something snaps at that age and they frankly get a little kinky. Cool with me. I just cannot seem to be attracted to younger guys, no turn on what so ever physically. Give me a hot 40 something with a huge BRAIN and no inhibitions...meow!

[James]

I see this blog is full of angry, single, miserable human beings. Moxie you don't know me so to call me a liar. For you to say that dont have six older sisters in their 40's is childish. It's obvious why you have free time to criticize and ridicule people. You're a miserable sorry excuse for even trash to keep you company. I am a man in every aspect of the word. I have the COCK to prove it. For you to try and discredit my opinion, or experiences is hilarious! I am more man than you would ever; in your slithery, existence experience. Just becasue you only have to potential to attract scum doesnt mean there arent people who can actually quality. I'll even go as far to invite you to dinner with all 6 of my sisters and my 45 year old woman I'm currently dating. I bet you're fat repulsive couch potato who can see her own feet! So make it a point in the future to be more objective and less BITCH!!!

[Mr-happy]

WOW I was talking to a bunch of chinese guys the other day and American women would really washout in asia because over there any men in his 40's [especially divorced ones] expects a women 20 years younger and ordinary guys get it all the time, it's the culture. I guess in some cultures the ideal of the old maid is more common. I agree with allot of what Moxie says.

So in China you 40 somethings would be stuck with 60 somethings, forget the Courgar shit. Your starting to see alot of American men date outside their race and cultures because they realize they don't have to settle with they thought they had to, and out all the women I would say American women are the most spoiled and entitled of all, but in this new world economy/culture, and all the options men have, frankly I am glad I am not a 43 year women instead of a 43 year man, you gals have it hard, and when reality meets expectations even harder, I feel for ya!

The few 40 somethings who do snag say 38 to 42 year old male are the exception and probably give the other less fortunate girls the wrong idea of what to expect..

[Mira]

^^^That is exactly what I've been talking about... Mr-happy.

Not only in Asia, you will find that situation in India, Mid-East & Africa as well. Why that "entitlement" theory of most "modernized" women holds... we "women" are lucky over here and yet we don't know it.

BUT, further down in the years when these female infanticide country (India, China etc.) mature & have more men than women... the tide will turn. Just nature's way of balancing itself out...