When Do You Give 'em a Shot & When Do You Give 'em a Pass?

Name: justAskin | Location: New York , NY |Question: ok so you need questions - here is one of mine that maybe some others have too. I'm pretty much done with online dating in favor of other forms of meeting people just because I haven't had a good time doing it. And, as has been said before on here it's probably better for the younger folks as I probably don't come up in searches whereas in person I definitely do better as I'm more of an "in person" attractor rather than a number on a matching site.

Anyway, I do still get emails a lot but I mostly toss them but today someone wrote me and I decided to take a look at his profile. My question is this - if I'm at the stage where I know what I am looking for and I know what compromises I'm willing to make (as obviously no one is a "perfect" match), what do you do when you see the person may have some compatible qualities but there are some things in the profile that you know might make it not work. For example, he says he's a musician (love em) but it says some college and self employed. Now, I have an MS and make about 150k, so for me to say to you that I have in my profile that my match should have completed college doesn't mean if I met someone in the real world who I thought was of fine intelligence and hadn't set foot in college that it'd be a dealbreaker would be a lie, I’d date him for sure. It's kinda like online i'm 43 and that's what the lead in is, in person i've always got a smile and I'm warm and outgoing and very positive and I look and act like someone who is younger (no flames please, just a statement) so that guy that online may say he only dates to 40 would maybe consider me b/c I met (and maybe even exceeded) what he was looking for in all other areas.  The other thing is the guy had down that he was divorced with a kid that didn't live with him (probably in a foreign country). Again, I don't ixsnay guys with kids, it's not my preference but it's one of the compromises - depends on the situation. If the
guy was really what I was looking for but happened to have a kid, I'd probably be ok with it. However, the divorce/kid/musician (not professional he says)/self-employed thing just raises pre-red flags in that I'm lead to believe that he's not going to have the financial means I deem ok. I totally compromise on that btw, I know I make a very good salary. I'd be fine if a guy say, made 1/2 what I make, as long as my leisure time wasn't sacrificed. I remember when I made that much and I didn't live that different than I do now, so it would depend on the things he wanted to do with downtime.

I guess the crux of the query here is when do you "give it a shot" and when do you just say "thanks for taking the time to write, but I'm not sure we'd be a good fit". They say nothing ventured nothing gained, and I know just having coffee with him wouldn't kill me, but this is a bigger question I'm asking to get the blog buzzing - not really just for me, but more for all of us. |Age: 43

YOUR THOUGHTS?

Comments

[LV]

My feeling is -- if the guy *could* be a possibility, if you're not repulsed by him -- why not at least consider talking to him on the phone?

THEN you can decide if you're interested enough to meet for a drink... and that first date doesn't have to be any longer than an hour or so.

[VJ]

There's the short answer here JA and the longer answer. The short answer comes a bit easier:

At 43, you shoot at anything that moves or comes close. Now that may not be the pristine 'big game' of our misbegotten youth, but it still may be worth discovering a bit further. Why not find out what the guys Does as a self employed amateur musician. If you're lucky, he's a certified plumber or an electrician and he's making decent bucks in an almost recession proof industry. (Almost!)

So it might be worth investigating. Nothing is a sure thing. Some of the wisest & wittiest people I know don't have college degrees. Most people your age Don't BTW. It's only the comparatively younger set where the numbers approach over 1/3 of the population.

So who knows? Who ever knows? Most people are not our ideals, but we learn to live with them. We discover things about each other that we learn to appreciate. Tolerance & Patient Understanding. Humility & humanity. Good humor and quiet loyalty. Things you might hardly be able to predict or guess at from a simple ad someplace either.

It's far easier to just give up and rely on our pets for affection and love. They're utterly more reliable and generally much less trouble. With humans you just have to keep on trying to make the connection. Even long after you've 'made it too!'

Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'

[Kendra]

So far, it seems that you're looking to base your rejection on a lot of what-ifs. Honestly, I would suggest you go on a date (or talk) and actually determine based on what you find when you're with him. If none of the the qualities you see now are deal-breakers, I say check him out in person without building up this barrier where you're looking for reasons to reject him.

Leaving money aside, you mention that what matters is what you do in your downtime -- why not ask him about what he does in his free time and see if you find more reasons to say "yes" (or "no"!) based on what he enjoys doing for fun/leisure?

Just my two cents -- you might find you're missing out on a great guy because you focused on setting up criteria that don't actually help you get the man you want.

Good luck!

[trouble]

I'm 42 and have used online dating as the primary method of meeting people in my small city since my divorce. The issue with online dating is that you have to be willing to at least take a shot with talking to someone by e-mail, but you cannot invest much up front or pre-judge people.

I know a ton of self-employed guys who make pretty damn good money without college degrees. There are lots of guys around here in the construction industry that do quite well.

Part of it depends on what you are looking for. I automatically know, going in, that I am going to out-earn most of the guys in my neck of the woods. Salaries aren't that high here, and I make a decent one. Even with college degrees, most guys are going to make a good 20K less because the major employer in my town is the state, and I know what salaries there arverage. The ones who make considerably more than me are usually going for someone younger and hotter--because they CAN. It's the "Economics of Dating," if you will.

In my experience here, and it's certainly limited just to the dates I've gone on, the guys who live in my town and work as lobbyists, attorneys, doctors, etc., are looking for eye candy once they get to a certain age, the trophy wife if you will. Guess what, girlfriend? At age 43, that isn't you.

So I'm just going to say it, flat out: I think your expectations are completely unreasonable. And, beyond that, you're way ahead of yourself here. You've already decided, in your head, to dismiss this guy because you don't think he makes enough money, even though you don't know jack shit about him.

Hello, superficial bitch, much?

I know why online dating hasn't worked out for you. And, I suspect meeting guys in other ways won't either. You have a completely inflated sense of your own value and an utterly fucked up paradigm about what matters in a man.

Most guys don't give a hot shit how much money you make. In fact, your paycheck means one thing tot hem: you're likely to be high-maintenance and full of yourself.

But, keep on with this strategy. It will leave more nice guys out there for the women who can see beyond the superficial.

[Just Stunned]

A connection with someone is made up of multiple facets, which include their interests and lifestyle. However, in this case, it doesn't seem that you have much information about that yet. Meet with him once, maybe even twice and find out what self-employed actually means, what he likes to do, etc. After you have more information, you will have a sense of whether or not you want to give him a real shot.

[Kegs]

Trouble, that rant was really unneccessary. She admitted that if she met people in person and they are intelligent without the degree it wouldn't matter. And she said she doesn't care if they even earn half what she does. I'm sorry, but I don't see that as being a 'superficial bitch' at all, that's picking at her words. It's no wonder people don't want to write in with questions when they get called a bitch in response to a perfectly reasonable question.

And it takes more than a paycheck to make a woman 'high maintenance and full of herself', that is something in a persons personality and applies to women with a lot or no money in equal measures - in fact the highest maintenance girl in my group of friends never has any money.

Her question was a simple one, in that when using online dating there is a tendency to look at factors that you may not consider when meeting someone in person, and should you give them a shot or not anyway?

Which to JustAskin, I think you really answered your own question. If you met someone without the degree in person who you clicked with it wouldn't matter. So why not give this guy a shot to see if he falls into that category? All online dating is, is a means to put you and that person in the same place together and talking to each other. It's an ice breaker. Once there, it's just like meeting someone in person.

And I know you said you didn't want to be flamed for the classic 'I'm in my mid 40's but look so much younger' comment, but why do so many women feel that they have to qualify their age with this comment? Do we ever hear anyone say 'I'm mid 40's but I look and act like someone in their 50's'? Please, we all look good for our age in this modern day of nice creams and hair dye and make-up, it's a given. And it doesn't change the fact you are the age you are.

[isa.how]

I appreciate your asking these questions. I think we all have had to take a dose of reality when it comes dating in our 'later' years. I don't experience anything that you've said as nasty. You are just being public with your conflicts - as I've said many times, I had similar conflicts with dating studs, being too picky etc, but now have to deal with a new reality at 42.

I say, do what you want to do. It couldn't hurt to meet this guy. Even if you don't become lovers with him, you could become friends.

I started doing something that I have NEVER done - ask men out on dates. It's strangely empowering. I don't know what will happen, but I am giving it a shot.

[Erin]

Hey Kegs your last paragraph tells me once again what I have always gathered from your comments, you are a truly outstanding woman who has her act together!!! I, too, am always baffled by the qualifiers used way too often here as truly I have found today the people who care, which includes most the people I know, take the time to look their best. And, if you always try to look your best usually you have your act down that looking your best can be accomplished in a relatively short period of time. Those who never try to look their best are the ones who struggle for hours on the rare occasion because they don't know how to put themselves together.

As to the original poster give the guy a chance. One night out of your life to see what the guy is like is one night that might change your life forever.

OP here, trouble i love your posts but you are WAY off here. I date EVERYONE who I think would at least suit me. I have dated people with no money or degrees and the very wealthy and highly educated. What matters in the end are values and compatibility. As a matter of fact I've been less likely to date "suits" than musicians, artists, etc. Maybe my question should have been phrased more like In my past i've liked these sort of "non-fitting" guys becuase they were really not fully there for me but were exciting and i don't want to spend time on the wrong guy b/c of the excitement angle. Again, i was really looking for a deeper discussion and not just one focused on me. But i was asking to get a question out there for mox - thanks for the responses. Trouble, you are on a negative rant right out of the gate these days on these last few posts. Yet you've said MANY times oooh my boyfriend is younger (only 2 yrs) and is HOT HOT HOT - i've not mentioned ONE superficial thing. To say that he is not my educational or financial equal is a STATEMENT OF FACT. And if you read what i said - i said that I COMPROMISE. and VJ, i don't need to "shoot at everything that moves" I never have and never will. The most important goal in life is NOT finding a mate but making sure I live a fruitful life and am happy and do things that are rewarding. Wait, sorry, take that back, for about 8 months when i was 39/40 I did shoot at many things i would never have given a second look to in my past and I met my ex-fiance. he was not my "type" but I was doing the "i'm older and what i did wasn't working" thing. Well you know what, it was the ABSOLUTE best relationship of my life that ended in him doing the one thing all the other bad boys never did to me. So NOTHING is guaranteed. No one I knew could believe that HE would do that to ME but he did. So I am going to go out with people who I too have an interest in, not just shoot at everything that moves. Being older is NOT a death sentence for love, as I've said before.

ps - thanks Kegs for sticking up for me -i'm the FARTHEST From superficial that you can imagine as i spent 10 years in the sudan helping out there and THAT is why i am behind the curve in mate-finding. But i wouldn't trade that time for the world, and if i never marry i know that i left my mark on the world in other ways.

[Jaclyn]

I think the issue of whether or not you should be giving these guys a chance depends upon how much free time you have in your life, how stressed out you get if you give a long shot a chance and things don't work out, and how many men are hitting on you online/in real life. If you have free time, you can plan to take a guy you are uncertain about to a restaurant you like or an exhibition you would like to see, so that even if things don't work out with him, you are still likely to have a good time. If there are a lot of men hitting on you, you can be more picky and reject men who don't look great on paper. But once the pool of available men starts to dry up, then I would strongly encourage you to create a much more flexible criteria in which you will assess your potential dates.

One thing that always amazes me here is the fact that MOST the readers are so hung up on age. Age is a fact it is not an accomplishment. It seems to me that women are just as guilty here as men in the wanting to date younger because everyone my age goes to sleep at 9:00. there are people in shape at every age and both sexes. I honestly feel like the majority of the women who post here in their 40's all want to date younger. There are some great guys in their 50's who are in shape who a women in her 40's would be YOUNGER.

To the original poster life amazes us when we least expect it. Take a chance not just with this guy but with other people as well. You really must be a remarkable woman that you spent 10 years in Sudan helping the people in that country. Good Luck.

[Kegs]

No problem, OP, and thanks Erin ;-)

[Laura]

Here is my seventeen cents...

You are incredibly superficial for caring about how much he makes and what he does for a living. If he supports himself, doesn’t want you to be there as a paycheck, and isn't doing something illegal - you really shouldn't care what he does or how much he makes.

If you hadn't already judged him I would say you should email him back and have a conversation with him. Just because you reply to his request doesn’t mean that you have to actually meet him, you can just have an email conversation before you decide if you want to meet him. Unfortunately you have already judged him so I can pretty much tell you it's not going to work.

Hopefully he is a wonderful guy and meets a woman that is a lot less uppity about how much money the person she is dating makes.

[Craig]

Dating is like playing the lottery: you have no chance to win if you don't play. If "justAskin" finds the dude in question attractive, that's enough incentive to go out on the date in my book. What the person looks like is all you really get out of these profiles (assuming their pics are accurate). Beyond that, you never know what you'll get of what sparks may fly until you meet in person. You have nothing to lose by meeting in person people you find attractive. A couple of hours of your life over a cup of coffee isn't going to kill anyone and sure beats sitting at home. But to never take a chance with someone you find attractive just because of other far less important reasons such as income and education is akin to throwing away a lottery ticket before even checking to see if it had the winning numbers.

If "justAskin" really makes $150k, I'm not sure why what anyone she dates does for a living, what they earn, and what their level of formal education is matters to her. She has more than enough income to take care of the both of them. I earn a good living also. Thus I don't care what a woman earns because I know that no matter what she does, the bills will be paid. I don't need her income to take care of business - thus what she can or cannot contribute financially is irrelevant in my decision to date her. If you can find someone you don't mind fucking and you sincerely enjoy their company, that's good enough. I would advise "justAskin" to adopt this same approach if she knows what's good for her because like it or not, the reality is her options are dwindling rapidly. You guys can get on Trouble as much as you want, but she was right about one thing: a high-earning 43 year old woman who wants a man her age and in her tax bracket is fighting an uphill battle against all the women 10-15 years younger such men can easily get.

[VJ]

The bottom line of my comments JA relate to some other post here the other day. None of us is getting any younger. You should try to give almost everyone a decent chance. That's what's behind my first thought, and as you indicated you Did have some luck in the past by 'disregarding your prior conventions' as far as dating was concerned.

But somethings are quite unusual about the original post. You stated your income, which is very specific and is far above the average income for most *households* in the US. This is what 'Trouble' was picking up on: "I'd be fine if a guy say, made 1/2 what I make, as long as my leisure time wasn't sacrificed".

Now that also sounds a bit strange from someone who spent a decade in the Sudan, and of course @ 75K, it's also in the top 20-25% of incomes in most places, (perhaps still in the top 1/3 EVEN in NY). So those are mighty particular requirements. And the Way you stated them probably is what Trouble was noticing.

It's fairly unusual to get to pick a 'high income' AND 'Completed College' date from the pool of likely blokes who are in the available dating pool, (everything else considered), especially in NYC. Again this is where Trouble picks up a common thread. Add in the commonly expressed desires of 'tall, dark & handsome' and High Earner & College Educated & Charming & Witty & Single & Other requirements and you're liable to be waiting for this lovely gent for sometime.

Now some will prefer to wait for that 'more perfect union' of ideals until 50 or 70 say. That's fine too. It's sometimes a lot of fruitless searching. But mostly people give up or give in long before that. They're just tragically made human that way. There are very few of us to be fortunate enough to look better at 70 than we did at 40 say.

But this is not to knock the original poster. It's your life, you should know what's acceptable. Again the most useful advice I can give anyone is to stick by the fewest number of requirements for dating, 3-4 is about all the market or most folks will bear or tolerate.

Just some thoughts. Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'

[hb]

I say give it a shot. Once you meet someone in person, the picture becomes so much more clear.

You need to really think about what you want. And take a chance or be happy just the way things are.

[mr-happy]

DON'T PRE-JUDGE!

I admit it I have, I said I would never date a women with child, and I have gone on 3 dates in 10 days with a women I would not have thought I would be a good match with who has a 6 year old, and so far it's great.

I think at 43 [me be 43 to!], we are looking for a calm yet exciting rational body to sleep next too first and everything else 2nd.

Also it is interesting to see I am not the only one who gets a bit bent out of shape on this blog at times.

Trouble your fisty tonight, I like that!

I feel like the questions and behavior patterns of the contributors are starting to repeat and get old, or maybe I am just getting jaded...

Cheers

[Steve from the city next door]

I think you have to look at the rest of your life and go from there. If you (I am talking about the general you, not a specific person) are crazy busy and really have to work to fit in a date then I think that should raise the standard. If you are making sacrafices you are going to be a lot more attached to the out come and probably a couple of these and you are going to start to get annoyed (or worse). If you have loads of time - why not? Tivo SatC and go. Also, are you finding a lot of better prospects? If you don't have any great candidates then why not check out the good or even just OK ones. Maybe they will be different in person.

Income and profession can really be an issue and I certainly would not call it superficial. It depends on the people and what they want. For example, some professions would are pretty much wed to the office (or at least the job). Income difference can really affect dynamices.

Dating is kind of like the lottery in that if you don't play you can't win (well, maybe you could find a ticket someone had dropped that was a winner...). Different in that you have a part in selecting the winner in dating, and going in you have an idea of things that will work and things that won't. hmmm...I paraphrase my stats teacher: Only players win the Lotto but non-players have 99.99...(he would rattle off about 10 digits) chance of coming out ahead then if they had played. (his saying was much catchier.) My point? uh? I guess that if you dated everyone you would surely lose or something.

[trouble]

~~~~However, the divorce/kid/musician (not professional he says)/self-employed thing just raises pre-red flags in that I'm lead to believe that he's not going to have the financial means I deem ok.~~~

You haven't even met the guy and you're judging him based upon these criteria. In your head, you've already dated and rejected him. If that isn't superficial, I don't know what is.

[KSR]

I'll admit that my initial reaction to an online guy who's a self-employed musician would not be enthusiastic. It's not politically correct, but it's true. I have no problem with dating a guy who makes less money than me--in fact, that's my current situation--but at my age, that whole gig screams 'slacker' to me.

However, after that initial reaction, I would remind myself that I could be very wrong. One of my best friends is very happily married to a guy who repairs musical instruments for a living. She has a Masters and he has some college. They are true partners and have a lot of common interests.

However, I don't think the OP can get past this based on the degree she focuses on money. That would require accepting that guy who makes well less than half what she does and regularly contributing more financially than he does. That's the deal. Or, you can always continue to hold out for that guy who will keep you beyond the manner in which you've become accustomed. Just don't hold your breath.

OP here - you are mistaken that what someone else makes doesn't matter. I said i would be fine if he made half that. A broke man for me would not work b/c as i get older i want to travel to farther away places with my mate. That is actually one of the things i look most forward to, esp if I never have kids. A man who makes so much less that travelling to say, New Zealand for a few weeks would be not only a hardship, but an impossibility, that wouldn't I be better off just traveling with friends, as I do now? Yes you may say is travelling more important than love and someone there for you, but i luckily have a large circle of caring friends so I never feel alone or unloved (thankfully). Everyone has their reasons why they are looking for a mate - from the more traditional to the more progressive, no one here should assume they know all the answers and again, if you knew me you would certainly know that I am none of the negative things you portray. As someone said earlier - Mox, the reason you're not getting questions is b/c some people on this board, instead of thinking about the question and giving a thoughful answer get right on the attack. Not just my question now, but so many others. This board is truly going downhill if we can't be supportive and try to help rather than attack and assume all kinds of awful things about a person. Just because I have an advanced degree and make good money doesn't mean i assume my mate should (as I clearly explained). The love of my life was a broke musician and I shouldered the burden and that was fine at that time. BUT i didn't get ahead on the things I needed to in life where if he had contributed even half the rent, at least my student loan would have been paid off by now. Small things like that that may seem insignificant to some of you, but the topic of $$ and dating has been discussed here and it is better when you have a [somewhat] equal partner in some areas. People, try to be more supportive of one another and less on the attack. If you've seen what I've seen in this world you'd see that most of this stuff is pretty petty.

OP, please know there are lots of nice people who post on this blog and then there are lots of angry people. It is easy to recognize the angry ones so it is best to just have an open mind and not let the angry ones get to you.

Do not apologize or worry about making $150K. I am guessing you probably work hard for your money and no one is writing you out a paycheck without you having earned it. Lots of people are jealous which I am sure you have encountered but that is a part of life. Before you worry about taking care of someone else I would first get your student loans paid off so you are free and clear of debt. You are not wrong to want to have a partner who can contribute financially. Anyone who says money doesn't matter is either independently wealthy through inheritance and trust fund (those who earn substantial sums of money know that money matters) or are lying. Money matters because money pays for health care. Read up on survivors of cancer and you will find that those who can afford the best health care seem to surprisingly survive the longest. Money affords the best education - ask any parent if they want to give their kids the best education they can. Money feeds, puts clothes on one's back along with one's family and provides housing. Now, not everyone needs the fanciest house but MONEY does matter. The wealthier one becomes, money affords security and privacy that you don't have to deal with as much BS as those without wealth. Money does not make a person better or worse ( people are who they are with or without money) but Money does matter.

When you have worked hard and earned substantial sums of money it is amazing the number of people who think you should just give them money. No matter how much money someone makes you never know if you will have some misfortune come your way through accidents or illnesses so each person needs to work hard and save their money and, yes, worry about committing your life to someone who may not share your same financial goals. It is okay if someone wants to work in a low paying field but it is also okay for you not to want to combine your finances with theirs and possibly cause yourself financial hardship.

[Michael]

Nope, not a good match. One does not have the time to give it a shot to everyone in NY. You too probably have even your etiquettes different. You might have travelled half the world, he probably did not get out of Greenpoint. It is similar to two people having major cultural differences. It is a big NO. You would be wasting your time big time.

My ex owns his own business and brings in between 50-60k a year. His business is fairly new and is still growing. He doesn't have a college degree either. He went for two years, was bored with it, dropped out and went to work doing what he loves: network admin, and computer/software repair. The man is a genius (IQ near 140), so just because this guy who emailed you doesn't have a degree, it doesn't mean he's stupid or a loser. Could be the opposite.

[trouble]

I am not angry. And I have nothing to judge you on but what you've written. Your initial post makes it sound like you spend too much time judging people superficially before even talking to them online. Which is exactly why online dating probably doesn't work for you. At our age, there are a limited number of guys in our age group. At some point, something's got to give. And, this isn't marriage. It's just a date.

If you want a guy who brings home 150k a year, I'd strongly suggest you look at an older age range. If you want to date someone your age, without kids, who makes decent money, than the looks might need to be what you give up. Look at the content of his character, not his hairline or waistline.

For me, I was willing to give up income and/or looks to find someone who is decent, kind, hard-working, and intelligent. My boyfriend isn't presently earning ANYTHING. He is living on his savings to start a business, from nothing. He drives the tiniest little older model car I've ever seen.

I'm suggesting that you are dismissing men without even talking to them to see if they are nice guys or bring home a decent paycheck (if that's a big issue) or if they are intelligent without a degree. I was willing to give up on finding someone who makes as much or more than me and focus in on finding a guy who is intelligent, ethical, and easy to get along with. I was LUCKY in that my boyfriend is way better looking (to me) than I expected to find.

He is balding and graying and wears glasses and is nerdy hot. But to me, he is smoking hot because he is such a good guy. I've never seen him look more smoking hot than when he was rescuing me this week from the middle of an intersection from car trouble.

I have given up having someone who can afford to do all the things I can do, travel-wise, to have someone who is so great in so many other areas.

Obviously, what you are doing isn't working for you. So, why are you so sure that you AREN'T being superficial and dismissing people without just cause?

Just asking. Obviously, if things are fine, great, keep on keeping on. But it sure didn't sound like they were, from your post. You didn't say why you ignore most of the e-mails you get. Why do you dismiss these guys so easily without even exchanging a single e-mail with them?

[A Tree in the Forest]

First off, thank you justAskin for offering up a question. It’s a shame you’re getting flamed when it seemed quite clear you were just trying to stimulate discussion. Keep in mind that the vast majority of contributors to this blog, myself included, are among the walking wounded from the battle for love. A few are in recently formed relationships, ever hopeful that they’ve finally found “the one”, but still want to show their scars and tell war stories. The few contributors that are long married are either unhappy on some level and are here to live vicariously in the dating world, or have that morbid curiosity that causes some people to rubber-neck at gruesome wrecks. Good advice usually comes from the voice of experience and sometimes others can see us more clearly than we see ourselves, but you have to remember to tune out the inevitable noise that attends all conflicts.

Pardon my paraphrasing, but I took your question to be: “Should we allow factors that a person discloses on their dating profile--things that we wouldn’t otherwise immediately know were we to initially meet them in the real world--influence whether we choose to communicate and/or meet them?” My answer would be “yes, of course!”

Each of us has developed our own set of filters as to what is physically, emotionally, mentally, financially, and spiritually appealing to us based on experiences we’ve had or our self-image. As long as you’re certain *your* filters are both realistic and essential to *your* happiness, who is anyone else to judge? If you are unsure, Moxie and the gang here will certainly offer opinions on the practicality of specific filters. However, if your experience and expectations have taught you that you must have/can’t stand certain characteristics in a mate, then weeding those carriers out from the field of on-line profiles only improves your odds of eventual relationship success. Quality versus quantity. When meeting someone in real life first, it could take quite a few dates before you realize they won’t pass through your filters, and by that time sometimes one’s lust has overridden logic so you rationalize and set yourself up for unhappiness. Been there, done that; she took the T-shirt.

I have a similar attitude as you regarding the relative financial and intellectual capacity of the women I date for much the same reasons you state. I realize that filter significantly reduces the pool of candidates for me but it’s a trade I’m willing to make. While everyone agrees that mutual physical attraction is the entry ticket for romance, after a few weeks/months/years together it is compatibility in all the other personality traits that will hold a couple together. Don’t underestimate the importance of your filters.

With that in mind, you might want to take a closer look at the characteristics of some of the contacts you’re getting rather than simply deleting them because you don’t like their picture. Face it, you’re only questioning your filters for this musician because you found him attractive. I’m not saying you should read the profile of every ogre or geezer who writes you, but maybe it’d be worth spending more time on the ones that have borderline looks (on your scale). You might find the substance you require in them, and find they become more attractive as you get to know them. Good luck, and thanks again for the topic.

THanks tree, actually, i may have mentioned my recent (last year) ex fiance. I did what is often suggested here. Looked at the "good guy". My ex was not attractive to me per se. But i'll tell you my compromises - he can be short, balding, grey, make 1/2 what i make and not really have fininshed college. These are not my choice but are the things that are not at all dealbreakers. Mine are, desire to see the world, non-judgemental, not predjudiced, not an atheist (agnostic ok) and in shape (this being both the pathway to my being attracted to them and shows me that they have an interest in trying to live a long healthy life). That basically is it. So with my ex, his face was not that attractive but the bonuses: he had a PhD made ok/good money (though he was very cheap so that was an issue as at the time we made the same), all his hair and a very good athletic (not ripped) physique and worked out and played sports all the time. Unfortunately he leaned more towards atheist, but he was agnostic (maybe the scientist in him) and he didn't really want children (but was willing to try for me), but he had glaring issues that caused the breakup unfortunately. So for all that say I'm superficial (trouble, saying i'm superficial to dismiss without cause is wrong, i've just honed my picking skills - they are broad but yet there are dealbreakers). This man who wrote, Tree, actually was i guess good looking but really the reason I'm giving him a chance is b/c he is worldly and well-travelled (my profile says that i would like someone for whom travel or seeing the world is a priority). I will meet him in person and who knows maybe he'll be good for a short-term if not long-term relationship if we get that far, i guess this is all more about do I do a 3-6 month thing with someone who I suspect may not turn to anything more or just always be focused on the lifetime mate. I decided since you can't predict the longevity of any relationship, i'll just take my chance. But i'll add, i've had so many bad online dates that i feel that hour of my life i'll never get back. And, as far as is there anything better around, i do get approached by a lot of men so that is not an issue right now, but i imagine it could be one day.

[Craig]

"A broke man for me would not work b/c as i get older i want to travel to farther away places with my mate. That is actually one of the things i look most forward to, esp if I never have kids. A man who makes so much less that travelling to say, New Zealand for a few weeks would be not only a hardship, but an impossibility, that wouldn't I be better off just traveling with friends, as I do now?" - Justaskin

Uh, you make $150k. If you have a guy who can't afford a trip you want to take, couldn't you just pay for the whole trip for the both of you? Sounds like it wouldn't be much of a hardship for you. I earn nearly double what my lady earns and consequently wouldn't think twice about treating her to a trip. So why can't a deeper-pocketed woman do the same for her man? It's interesting that many women have no problem with not working or having a limited income while their man provides by them. But doing it the other way around is unthinkable. Quite the double standard.

[VJ]

I'm sitting here wondering the same thing as Craig. From the same quote. I think your subsequent post does flesh this out a bit better as far as your intentions are concerned, but still for the average American, Very Few can afford to take a 'few weeks off to explore NZ'.
Many folks with incomes far in excess of yours can not do this due to their being required to be 'hands on' in their business operations or their own businesses.

Ergo, Having that larger income (and hence probably More responsibility) will not ensure that any bloke will actually be able to travel with you to enjoy the trip! Most Americans BTW Can't & Don't take vacations much longer than a week to 10 days. And it's getting Worse, not better on that score. So in point of fact it's the rare working guy who CAN take 'weeks off to explore NZ', but an underemployed musician with less than steady bookings Might.

So as others have kindly suggested, it's best to try and be a bit more logical here. Filters are fine. Pick any 3-4. Employed& Rich, college educated & reasonably fit. That's fine. But some of that might be Perfectly Incompatible with the travel you so deeply desire.

So my thought here is to take the travel first. Really. Take along anyone you can, friends, family, lovers, BF/GF who ever you want. Do it now while you're young enough to enjoy it with someone. Don't get that confused with trying to find a mate and shoe horn in that into your travel plans. Statistically, it's just going to be too difficult to put that all together in one package, at least consistently, thus making it Less Likely to Find. Add on or specify religiosity, (not uncommon), and wants or desires a family? I think we can safely say that for each additional 'requirement' there's an equally likely 'trade off': Add 10-15LBS around the middle, and a more receding hair line. Add 'easy going' (non judgmental, non prejudiced (!?)), and he starts going to the gym less regularly and looses 10-20IQ points. It's really a careful balance. This is what Trouble and others are trying to say. Now we have tried to quantify it.

Bottom Line: We're the least vacationed and most overworked population in the Western industrialized world. This would be especially true for NYC too! EPI.Org, & CEPR.org & Demos.org can get you the stats on that as needed too. Take the vacations now with your friends. Discover love on your own time & your own terms. If you're willing to wait long enough the all balls may come up right for you & your situation. But don't delay life dreaming of it. Live as you want to dream.

Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'

[the critic]

"At 43, you shoot at anything that moves or comes close. Now that may not be the pristine 'big game' of our misbegotten youth, but it still may be worth discovering a bit further."

I don't know what's weirder, the "shoot at anything that moves" part or the "pristine big game" part. What a weird-ass approach to romance. Someone's watching way to much Sex in the City.

If someone is "shooting at anything that moves" that to me sounds like pure madcap desperation. That won't work, it would just wear down the spirit to the point that would make the act of meeting people mechanical and devoid of interest. I think guys can detect a woman that is "just looking for a man, any man!"

This woman doesn't sound desperate, she sounds like she really doesn't mind being alone that much frankly, which is probably a good thing. I mean that's how I am personally to be honest. I'm mid forties and I certainly don't shoot at anything that moves. She sounds very happy with herself although she might be happier if she met a nice guy who didn't meet her income standards but was interesting and fun to be with. So what if he can't afford to go to New Zealand . . . give me a break!

um Craig, no - just because i make that much doesn't mean i could afford to pay for a trip for both. For example, a friend and I are going on safari in a couple months. it's 10k each. I can't afford 20k for a vacation. I don't make 250k

[VJ]

Always good to know OP. I know people who make more than you & your friend combined who dare not leave the state for long for fear that their business would be unattended for that long and they'd miss out on some opportunity or in 'fixing' something the staff had gotten wrong.

I say you're very fortunate to be able to pull down such a salary and still take off that amount of time to just 'explore'. That's either a Government job or likely a very fortunate and unique posting. Most people do not have such opportunities. With or without the male companion, I'd travel ASAP while you can still swing it easily with your job. And critic, read the Last few posts I've made on this topic.

Cheers & Good Luck! 'VJ'

[Quirky]

I think the OP should take a chance on the new guy if she feels he's borderline. Test it out and if after a few dates, you're still iffy about it, just move on. I once met a guy online who I found was too short but decided to give him a try and go out a few times. I later couldn't get over his height (he smoked as well and had not so great teeth). The same way one thing in particular may not be a dealbreaker, but the combo may be.

Most of my exes, I really wasn't too attracted to in one way or another at first - to the point where I didn't think a relationship was possible, but I gave it a try and whatever it was obviously wasn't a big deal in the long run - that or I grew to like it. However there are certain non-negotiables as far as personality and financial responsibility are concerned.

Everyone has SOME requirement that is superficial in some way, whether it be money, looks, race, age, weight or something else. If you're not going to go out/date/marry a 300 lb balding, toothless trucker despite the fact that he has a heart of gold and will treat you like a Queen (vice versa for the guys), don't criticize others. If she's being too picky, she'll soon find that out on her own and adjust her requirements as necessary.

[dusktilldawn]

I think that even at 43 you have options and you have 43 years worth of preferances. With that said Look at the flip side of things:
1) He's divorced means: Is/was capable of being in a long-term relationship, probably knows how to maintain a home and is available not just "seperated"

2)Is self employed: means he's Fexible with his time, doesn't come home bitching about how work sucks or how his boss is a dick and can promote himself. Obviously he's good at it to the point where he can afford to have internet service.

3)He has a kid that doesn't live at home: Great you won't ever have to deal with that akward "Hey why are you in my dads bed moment" .Bonus: He already has a kid and thus you don't have to feel obligated to procreate.

4) He's a musican: Great he has a hobby/career and supports himself on that hobby which says allot. He may consider himself ok but he must be talented enough to convice others to listen to him!

5) He didn't complete college: Seriously Some of the most interesting people I know have never stepped foot into a classroom. Yes having a degree does paymore but would you perfer to be at dinner in a fancy restaurant with a highly paid, ivy leage yuppie who bores you to death or a guy who has a wide range of interests, makes music and thinks your words are the best sound he has ever heard? At the amount you make. You can take care of yourself so whats the big deal about what he makes?

VJ thanks - i've always travelled extensively and a most of the time alone. It doesn't bother me. I had been to Paris 14 times (had a friend who married and lived there), but it wasn't until the 15th time with my ex fiance that i realized is is diff/better with a romantic partner. I have a financial services job and i don't get that much time off anymore, but enough to enjoy a vacation or two a year. What i was trying to say before is that i'm not sure if i'll have children but what i am sure of is that I will see the world (God willing). So, i want to have a mate that can travel with me and afford to. My ex made a little more than 1/2 of what i do now and we took two amazing vacations in the two years we were together - and he's relatively cheap so I'm sure glad we got to. But of all the compromises I said I would make (and there are LOTS people - read my previous post) the desire and means to travel isn't one of them because if I don't get the opportunity to have kids with my partner then a traveling companion is near the top of my list. You can call me superficial, but i'll travel with that 5'6" balding not so good looking guy without a college degree who is in good enough shape to make the trek up killamanjaro. I don't know WHERE you get that i'm picky or superficial. YIKES, you people. Yes the compromise for travel I'll make is that maybe we don't stay in 800/night rooms - that's fine!

[Betsy]

I think this advice is the same for anyone regardless of the age. What do you have to lose to talk to the guy on the phone and then meet him in person for coffee or drinks? Try to get to know him as a person and don't worry about whether he meets 100% of your criteria. If he seems like a decent guy, meets 70% of your must haves, and seems to share common goals/values...then why not give him a 2nd date? No need to project too far in advance at this stage.