So...I'm confused. After our date the week before last, I sent the "thank you so much for cocoa, it was great to meet you, hope we can hang out again" e-mail. Here is his response that he sent today.
Moxie,
Sorry to take so long to reply. I
only
recently got back from vacation, and I've been digging myself out
from
under a stack of student papers and emails.
I enjoyed meeting
you, but I was getting more of a friend vibe than a
chemistry thing. I open
to hanging out again, but I know how these
things can go.
Hope your
New Year is a great one.
Matt
Now...is he saying that he didn't get a chemistry vibe? Or that he didn't think I got a chemistry vibe and thought I just wanted to be friends?
Advice on how to respond to this without sounding completely insecure???
YOUR THOUGHTS?
From what you told us all last week, you didn't feel that you clicked either. You thought he was very polite so you wanted to see him again. Internet dates are basically blind dates, most times you won't click. Wish him a happy new year and good luck in his search.
Posted by: Miranda | January 01, 2009 at 05:20 PM
I haven't been reading any private blogs on the situation but just from this post this is my advice.
Don't do or write anthing. I think that he wasn't feeling it and wanted to let you down gently. I know how you can read that he thought YOU weren't the one feeling it. Just let it go. You should have to convince him of anything at all. He knows you were feeling it just by sending that thank your email.
Also, in your email, why do you say thank you "SO MUCH" as if he was doing you a favor... ?? Anyway that is how it comes across... a little bit insecure on your part... He should be the one thanking you SO MUCH for hanging out with him... Be positive and confident. And you should be the one sizing him up not the other way around... doesn't matter if you are 25 or 40... its in the attitude... confident, relaxed, going with the flow... trying to convince never works... been there.
Posted by: OF | January 01, 2009 at 05:24 PM
oh, meant to say you should have NOT to convince....(in first paragraph)
Posted by: OF | January 01, 2009 at 05:27 PM
He paid for my cocoa. Don't you think that he WAS doing me a favor? Or should a woman not acknowledge that sort of courtesy because it's what a man is "supposed" to do? Acknowledging that courtesy has nothing to do with being confident or insecure. It's about being gracious and well mannered. It's called Basic Etiquette 101.
Yes, I said that I didn't feel the ZING! when we went out. But then I said that he offered me his arm without me even asking when he noticed I was unsteady in my shoes. I was afraid to slip on the ice and he graciously extended his arm to me for support. That that made me think I should look a little deeper.
Posted by: SexandMoxie | January 01, 2009 at 05:35 PM
The way I read the his email is that he didn't feel chemistry between you (i.e. he wasn't "feeling it).
He is "open" to hanging out again (this is in answer to your "hope" that the two of you can hang out again). He is warning you, however, that even though he is open to it, he "knows how these things can go"--as in, he doesn't expect his vibe to change.
I agree with Miranda. If you want to respond, you can just send a short, but sweet email wishing him a happy new year and good luck etc. If you want to leave the door a little open, you could certainly let him know that he can feel free to call to meet for a drink if he is in your hood.
It sounds like the guy already has a few romantic irons in the fire, anyway, right?
Posted by: LizM | January 01, 2009 at 06:42 PM
The benign interpretation here is that he genuinely liked you as a friend, and would like to spend time with you as a friend. The less benign interpretation is that the guy has a really big ego (since he already announced that he was seeing a lot of other women without your asking) and either wants to let you down gently since he thinks you have feelings for him or he is looking for a fuckbuddy (and he can point to this email as a defense if you get too attached during the fuckbuddy relationship).
If you enjoy spending time with him and would like to pursue a friendship with him, I would say that you should accept his offer of friendship. I don't think it is worth trying to pursue a relationship with this guy since he doesn't seem too interested and is already juggling a bunch of other women.
Posted by: jaclyn | January 01, 2009 at 06:46 PM
His letter is gracious and well mannered. It's called Basic Etiquette 101.
He's not into you romantically. Most people in the internet dating world just ignore the follow-up email / call when they're not interested. He was kind enough not to leave you hanging.
99% of people don't internet date to make new friends.
Posted by: JMO | January 01, 2009 at 08:04 PM
he saying that he didn't get a chemistry vibe? - - - Yes.
Posted by: Chris | January 01, 2009 at 09:37 PM
I'm sure you are a fun interesting person to be friends with....if you want to hang out with him there is no harm.
Sometimes when the pressure is off, the chemistry sneaks in.
Posted by: dangerous curves | January 02, 2009 at 12:14 AM
She was honest and polite, he was honest and polite; that's pretty damn rare in this world. Too bad there wasn't any chemistry there to go with it.
Mox, you said yourself you weren't feeling the chemistry, so why are you getting insecure when he unknowingly agrees with you? It's a mutual thing; he'd have to be an idiot not to notice your lack of interest. Can you blame the guy for not wanting another date when he knows there's no potential? Sure, you were willing to give it another shot, but he's the one picking up the tab, so it's fair for him to expect a bit more of a connection. My advice: tell him you were feeling the same way, wish him luck, and forget about him. It was just a pre-date anyways.
Posted by: Crotch Rocket | January 02, 2009 at 12:21 AM
It's always nice when a date thanks me for drinks or dinner or just for the company and I make it a point to see her again. Good manners and proper Etiquette goes a long way and I have set my friends up on dates with women that I had gone out with simply because of that.
Your date sounds like a gettleman and if he didn't feel any chemistry and wants to be a friend then let it be.
Posted by: Michael | January 02, 2009 at 01:39 AM
I read the email as saying he respects and likes you - but not in that way. He wouldn't have added the qualifier if he really did want to see you again. Sigh, there will be better ones along. I wouldn't bother responding. Good luck.
Posted by: sarah | January 02, 2009 at 02:34 AM
Part of the problem here is that people are making snap judgements as to whether or not there is chemistry after one date. On the 1st date you two are complete strangers! Personally, I RARELY IF EVER feel romantic chemistry with complete strangers and when I have it hasn't counmted for much because often enough teh person is wildly incompatible anyway.
Some of the good advice I have been hearing from other sources is to always give people 3 dates, maybe 2 if they're really horribly incompatible after that but after a 3rd date, ONLY THEN you know if there is chemistry or at least the possibility of chemistry over time AND if you two might be compatible for a more sunstantial relationship.
I find that the strongest most intense chemistry I have ever had is that which built up over time and regular contact and not that which happened on a first meeting. This is not high school.
Posted by: Treifalicious | January 02, 2009 at 03:16 AM
Oh, so just to sum things up, I think this guy is being hasty and Moxie is too IF she was considering brushing him off (though it seems to me that she was willing to see him again which is the right approach). Unfortunately, some people insist on dating using the same methods that may have worked in high school and college years and even decades later. It's not Moxie's fault that he's a dumbass.
Posted by: Treifalicious | January 02, 2009 at 03:20 AM
Geez Moxie do you really need to devote an entire posting to this one date ? You say it all the time, "Men tell you how/what they're feeling". He said he wasn't feeling the vibe. Done deal. If he was interested in another date he would have told you.
Posted by: pjdreams | January 02, 2009 at 07:47 AM
Well I have noticed I always feel chemistry on a 1st date with someone I will be intimate with, and when I don't feel it 9 times out of ten things go no where. I disagree with people who say hey if you feel nothing at first that's OK, everyone knows the best romances always start out with Chemistry. The other problem with no chemistry is if you have it you know it's there and that creates sexual tension, if not then you have to keep on chugging along and HOPE that it happens and many times it does not, but sometimes it does, yet it's a risk.
I totally understand how Moxie may feel. While I have had a good deal of success dating this year there have been times when I was all hyped up for a date and then there was no chemistry, once a women just came out and said it, then I acknowledged I felt no chemistry either. Even know we both knew it, it still kind of sucked to get rejected which is perhaps why Mox felt the way she did and created this posting. Rejection sucks for most people what ever the circumstances, it sucks the most when you dig someone and they feel zero connection to you. Most of the times I think it's the not the person that makes you feel bad as from what she said she was not that in to him anyway except for the gentlemanly act on the first date. It's the actual rejection of him acknowledging he does not feel sexual chemistry with her which probably hurts and these things create insecurities in most of us, even when two people know it, I don't think most people enjoy having another person reject them sexually, it sucks. Women who have so much pressure from us guys to look pretty and sexy probably take these things worse then men do.
I have noticed that when I have to really work hard at getting a girl to like me it's because of the lack of chemistry and as I said almost always these types of connections go no where, the best dating relationships I have had, I never really had to anything other then spend time with the girl and be a gentleman, chemistry and mother nature took care of the rest.
I think chemistry is important even if most dates do not have it, and perhaps for me and most people only a tiny fraction of the first dates we go on have any chemistry, but I think it is what most people are looking for.
So instead of saying maybe it will develop I think it's better to move on to the next and go for the chemistry unless you have a big problem getting dates in which case perhaps it's worth a 2nd shot.
Good Luck and Happy New Year Mox
Posted by: Chris | January 02, 2009 at 09:31 AM
Moxie,
Just to clear up my earlier response. Didn't mean to say that I didn't like the Thank You note itself. Just the SO MUCH part of it... it is over analyzing it anyway. I think if the guy is not feeling it, niceness or politeness will not trigger chemistry.
Evan Marc Katz had a good column recently about how to tell if the guy is serious... His "Do Nothing" column rings very true.
Posted by: OF | January 02, 2009 at 10:36 AM
I agree, I think people need to give other people the benefit of the doubt more often. First dates can be awkward, not everyone is good at making small talk. My philosophy was that as long as the guy was decent (seemed nice, no obvious deal-breakers, etc) I would always go out a second time. Sometimes the second date was just as "bad" as the first (so there was no third date) and sometimes the second date was really good and led to a relationship. I've gone out with guys who looked "perfect" (for me) on paper, and nothing developed, and I've gone out with guys who didn't seem particularly compatible with me and we ended up having a relationship. It's good to give people a chance, you never can tell what will develop.
Posted by: just me | January 02, 2009 at 11:14 AM
i just want to say that i disagree that chemistry must be instant. my longest relationship was with an ex whom i really didn't notice or think much about the first couple of times that we met. but he was persistant and i ended up falling for him. so no, the idea that attraction is instant or non-existent... is wrong.
Posted by: My 2¢ | January 02, 2009 at 08:46 PM
Well you use the word EX meaning your relationship didn't last. I think sometimes there is no chemistry in the beginning but in many relationships that lasted you will see it in the beginning but agreed it's not an absolute just a general type of thing, and frankly most people would prefer it but now all people have it.
BTW I also think it does not have to be "instant" [it should be within a fairly short period of time though I feel] but if your sensitive you can feel in the first or at most second date what is going and if there is a real romantic connection or not.
Posted by: Chris | January 02, 2009 at 08:55 PM
Let it go and move on. And especially try to let go of the hostile stuff - 'he's a dumbass' as one commenter said. It's a numbers game, and the negative, put down, critical energy gets noone nowhere.
It's not rejection, it's just not a fit. Happens all the time. Nice of the guy not to string you along. Directness is a nice quality. Saves you time and obsessional energy! Letting go is a lovely feeling, freeing, and keeps you a lot more open to meet someone new. Someone new in a new year...sounds good, promising, and has lots of potential!
Posted by: Clarissa | January 03, 2009 at 10:52 AM
I understand those of you (mostly women) who claim your attraction grows after several dates and thus continuing to date someone with no initial chemistry makes sense. However, I've never personally experienced that phenomenon; if I am not attracted to a woman within the first few seconds of meeting her, I never will be, so there is no point in another date -- not on my dime, at least. In fact, with online dating there's often little point in the first date by the time we get close enough to greet each other, and it's just an exercise in killing time until we can both gracefully escape. (In fact, when I was young and online dating first appeared, I stood up a number of women because I spotted them first, saw they were far uglier/heavier than their pictures indicated, and bailed. Now I'll at least show up and be polite, but I'll still be looking for an excuse to leave ASAP.)
"It's not rejection, it's just not a fit." That's always something good to keep in mind; it takes two to make a couple, and a lack of a fit doesn't mean anything negative about you, just the two of you combined. And, if that's not enough, many people make consistently bad choices and rejecting you may actually be a compliment ;)
Posted by: Crotch Rocket | January 03, 2009 at 12:10 PM
I am a female and I find that at least a "hint" of chemistry needs to be there for most men, or really what is the point of bothering...they just move on to someone they have actual chemistry with. A lot of women give it the ole college try because some of us women are able to base our attraction on other things, like personality. If there isn't even a hint of attraction/chemistry most people (including myself) don't see the need to do all that work. If there is in fact a hint, but not necessarily a glaringly strong attraction, I will go on a 2nd and/or 3rd date and see what happens...so in my opinion there has to be something to build on, however small at first.
Posted by: sweetwillows | January 03, 2009 at 12:41 PM
This is very unfortunate and bruising to a person's ego...but also very true. Dating/Mating is definitely not for the weak or faint of heart, sorry to say.
Posted by: sweetwillows | January 03, 2009 at 12:47 PM
he is my ex b/c we were in college and not ready for marriage/a permanent relationship at that time. we were together for a year and a half, and the chemistry that evolved was very strong and lack of it was not the reason for our breakup...there are almost always many factors to a break up. i still consider that one to be a successful first relationship. not all of us want to only be with 1 person in our lives.
Posted by: My 2¢ | January 03, 2009 at 03:07 PM
Moxie,
Whether he was saying that he didn't get a chemistry vibe or that he didn't think you got a chemistry vibe is irrelevant. The result is the same: he just closed the door on any romantic possibility between the two of you. That doesn't mean he isn't open to sex, but if you're looking for a bf, move on.
Posted by: Gerry | January 03, 2009 at 04:14 PM
I agree with everyone who said all you can do in this case is to politely walk away. When responding, I'd keep it short and sweet. How about: "Thank you for your honesty, Matt. I wish you a great new year as well. Take care, Moxie"
Anything more would be too much, I think. Keep it classy and succinct. This puts the ball firmly back in his court and lets him figuratively watch you walk away with your head held high.
So sorry you won't be getting a second look at each other. But I'm sure you'll get some more high-quality irons in the fire very soon!
Posted by: b | January 03, 2009 at 05:59 PM
Usually if a guy is into you, they show it right away. I think you're dealing with an assertive guy. He's not going to be shy and I think he pretty much said he wasn't interested politely. I agree that you should just be casual and write back that if he's in the neighborhood maybe you guys can get drinks/cocoa. Anyway, good luck in the new year! At least, he was a nice guy. Maybe he will want to be friends but that rarely happens when you meet online.
I tried being friends with a couple of guys that way. One I had completely platonic feelings for and told him so, but I always felt he kept me around as a backup option, not really as a platonic friend. The other, of course, seemed nice during dates, but as a friend, I realized he didn't have the most stable personality. :0 Anyway, I'm engaged to my best friend now, whom I met online dating. So it does happen, usually when you least expect it. Good luck, Mox!
Posted by: hb | January 06, 2009 at 05:19 PM