Who has a bigger "DANGER" sign flashing over his head -- a single 30ish, loudmouth, slick-talking "player" type who has at least as many notches on his bed post and/or failed relationships as daily cogent thoughts OR a single 40+ introvert with fewer good night (or good morning) kisses than fingers -- and why?
I have no problem admitting that I'm guy #2. I know I have issues and I know what they are (height and income/job are the two biggies.) I've been trying to correct the latter one for more than 10 years (it's coming along... not as fast as I'd like.. but as least there's recent progress).
Here's where I'm going with this -- why after living in NYC for more than 3years and trying every imaginable means to jump start my social life (online/speed dating, joining social organizations, hiring a dating coach, etc.) did I decide about 12-18 months ago to pitch them all and give up completely? I hardly think I'm too picky (midtown Manhattan parks at lunchtime are for me treasure troves of eye candy) and while I'm no Adonis, I certainly don't have any of the schlumpy traits/habits about which you repeatedly warn us guys (beer guts, etc.
My early attempts at joining the NY social world were simply so negative; I'm wondering if they permanently scarred me and if that lack-of-experience scar is visible to every woman that passes me by. |Age: 42
As long as you believe there's no hope, there isn't. That's the first hurdle you need to get past. Because as long as you believe it's all a crock and all a waste of time, it will be. Not only that, but you will project that insecurity and negativity and it will become a force field that prevents anyone from taking the time to get to know you.
Now, with the shiny happy touchy feely bit out of the way, let's get to the real meat of the issue.
You say that midtown Manhattan parks are your "treasure troves" for "eye candy." Yet you also say that you're not too picky. I'm not sure exactly what you're implying here, but felt compelled to make this point anyway. You shouldn't be shooting for the "eye candy." And it's great that you're aware that you aren't Adonis. But, really, who is? So admitting that you're not some Greek God looking guy doesn't exactly prove that you aren't too picky. It just proves you paid attention in High School Literature or History class.
By your own admission, you are lacking in two areas that are very important to women - height and professional (and possibly financial) stability. Like we said in last week's post about the male expiration date, you have passed the point where your career-related shortcomings are attractive or charming. Since you also appear to be vertically challenged, you have two huge strikes against you. So, eye candy is kind of out of your league unless you are extremely confident. Again, something else you're lacking. You want the eye candy? Then you will have to do some serious work on your confidence and how you view yourself. Charm and confidence can make up for quite a bit. At least to women. Men? Not so much.
I'm telling you this because it's possible that you're underplaying these two personal challenges and potentially shooting for women out of your league. If so, then it's no wonder you're ego has taken a beating and you want to give up. After striking out a certain amount of times, a person starts to anticipate rejection, which usually results in rejection.
Your situation is similar to those of the women 35 and over to whom I advise to avoid online dating and stay out of bars. You were trying to force yourself into a community that does not appreciate or embrace you. Hence why you feel so discouraged. You were trying to force a square peg into a round hole.
Stop with the singles events and online dating. A good chunk of the women in your age range who participate in those things are there because they were too picky. By participating in such mediums, you are subjecting yourself to judgment by people who, for all intents and purposes, are in no position to be judging anyone. Same goes for the women who engage in these activities. I've said this before. Anything "singles" oriented that's targeted to the 35+ crowd is going to be heavily populated with people for whom nobody is good enough. If you are going to utilize these means to meet people, prepare yourself ahead of time and appropriate your expectations so that your self-esteem doesn't take a beating. It's not as much about you as it is about their inordinate expectations and distorted personal value.
Stay away from anything that focuses around bars, clubs or partying. That's a shallow scene and attracts an even more shallow crowd. Or it attracts a bunch of people who long to be accepted by a certain world or clique so they can feel better about themselves.
Stick to social activities that revolve around anything other than finding a mate or getting drunk/laid. Cultural events, volunteer groups, career related support groups, specialized groups that are targeted at an activity.
It's really all about expectations. When you appropriate them and have a good idea of what to expect, and can accept that everybody has their type, you'll be able to regain your control and your confidence.
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I think Moxie's advice is really good on this, though I think height is way way over rated.
If you are smart and funny and charming your height and job will not be so important. What does count is how you dress and carry yourself and your spirit. Have fun. Be fun. Have a sense of humor.
Posted by: dangerous curves | November 03, 2009 at 08:24 PM
I agree with the proffered advice...
The guy should join a running club or perhaps a sports league. Also, men who are negative and people-haters are SO easy to detect from one or two conversations. A change in attitude works miracles, socially, and for men.. this can often compensate for other shortcomings.
Whenever I hear a "I hate people.. haha" or a me me me me wah wah sob sob response from a guy during a conversation, I gag.
Posted by: Geena | November 03, 2009 at 09:55 PM
Checkout sosuave.com
Posted by: You-Can-Do-it | November 03, 2009 at 10:40 PM
I understand height and why women want it.
I am decently tall 5'11 and I was at a deli today with a gal who was probably over 6 feet and I could feel that it even felt a little strange to me. Guys height for gals goes back to the caveman protection days; in other words if a man is taller then the woman we can protect her and so on. Height for the girls is sort of like big boobs and an hour glass shape is for guys. We just want it, it's instinctive and that's that.
Moxie is right about game and confidence; guys who date out of their range have a lot to massive amounts of confidence and yes it powerfully effects women yet few man even rich ones have true internal confidence these days.
With all that said, I would add dressing well [I recommend getting yourself a GQ subscription and buying some nice cloths and learn to make yourself up nicely] will greatly increase the effect you have on women.
Also if your a 5-6 in the looks department maybe you can get a 6-7 but you will most likely not be doing the eye candy unless your worth millions and even then maybe not.
Also consider looking for women who are an inch or two shorter then you and this will automatically increase your odds of success.
We all long for what we can't have not realizing that if we go for a good fit we will in the end have much more happiness anyway.
Also even for guys who have their package together you still need to be prepared for A LOT of rejection in this age of picky-people to find a good person to date.
DO NOT GIVE UP; just change your tactics and follow the tips outlined here.
Posted by: Anonymous | November 03, 2009 at 10:50 PM
I wonder if he's looking for a woman as an accomplishment rather then a companion.
Or maybe he's like my brother, setting his sights too high as a way to avoid the scary reality of having to deal. A fantasy is much safer.
Posted by: Joey Giraud | November 03, 2009 at 11:02 PM
Again with the crazy formatting issues on the posts here too. What’s up with that?
Domester, we've got little idea if you're playing out of your league, but we do know that Forest Hills is hard to deal with. It's not quite LI 'enough' to have you Exclude the NYC environs, but it's certainly 'geographically undesirable to plenty of NYC/ Manhattan residents.
So you're in that awkward 'in-between' ground for a few issues here. And @ 42? You're getting long in the tooth to be playing these games, especially if you're not rich. So reassess & reevaluate what it is you want here. Is it a simple 'dating' relationship? Is it a serious 'LTR', or perhaps one leading to marriage? If the latter, your approaches need to change, obviously. You're not going after the 'eye candy' per se, but also folks who are interested in LTR's. And they can and do come in all shapes & sizes, and are not often found 'frolicking in the parks'. Sorry. There's many different venues that might be suggested, but something work related (nearby, perhaps not exactly On the job) or something related to a hobby or volunteering effort might be most helpful here.
You need someone on the same 'wavelength' who is serious about a LTR, and who does not mind short guys with small incomes. Strangely enough. Naturally this would have been far easier some 20 something years ago in school when everyone's broke (or nearly so), but you've got to deal with the hand that you've been dealt. No amount of extra workouts or touching up your style/wardrobe is going to make much of a difference here. The only 'self-improvement' likely needed & necessary is to be done from the inside out. Gaining more confidence in social situations. That comes with some practice, and you're running behind. So take some time to dedicate to becoming more confident making a 'first approach' to anyone. Old guys & gals were & are always my favorite. Always willing to talk. Then when you build up some confidence (and perhaps a bit of a repertoire), you can start to approach some likely women a bit better. But you really do have to know your 'mark' & 'league'. Anything else is likely to waste more time.
So get your mind out of the young stuff in the parks, and start looking for serious women your age who want a good relationship with a 'quality guy'. They're out there. And not all of them discriminate on the basis of height & income. Just about 70-80% will however. So do be aware of that!
Cheers & Good Luck, 'VJ'
Posted by: VJ | November 04, 2009 at 04:54 AM
Moxie's advice is spot-on. It's not easy coming to terms with 'one's league' but it is important if we ever want to have a shot at finding a partner.
It may be a good idea to take an objective look at the kinds of men these 'eye candy' women date. Are any of them with men on the short side? Do they date primarily professional men with impressive incomes? If that's the case (and i suspect that it is) you have to be willing to accept that these women won't want you in the way you want them to. They may even like who you are and even find you good looking, but they are looking for something else.
I've certainly experienced this with men over and over again. I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the numbers of men from all walks of life who have told me how stunningly beautiful they think I am. Only to pass me over for women who fit their class/race quirements. It's been a hard lesson, but I keep working at coming to terms with who I am and being grateful for the beauty that was passed down to me.
Posted by: michelle | November 04, 2009 at 07:52 AM
I have male and female friends who does this too because they never learn to take the best they can get.
1) I can not imagine going to these 35+ single meetups and everyone there is just disappointed with each other because they think they can do so much better. Yesterday this women told me what she means by a loser - first thing she said overweight guys. After that I said, you have a obvious muffin top you are being a hypocrite. You shouldn't expect someone to have x y and z qualities when you do not have the same qualities.
2) You are lucky because you are a man. Go to another country where you being a American will give you the kind of leverage in America that would make you 6ft 2 tall and a millionaire at the same time. Go to Asia, Brazil, and Eastern Europe. In these countries being a America will give you the kind of odds you wish you had with normal American women.
If you have been living in NYC another country would be much better. Imagine going to a country where the women have way less and more realistic expectations than women from NYC.
Women can go to a different country to but the odds are a little bit harder unlike being a man.
Posted by: Bill | November 04, 2009 at 08:24 AM
Bill has a great point. My background: European, seen some 40 countries and lived in NYC for several years.
OP, if you want a good looking woman for LTR let alone marriage I would refuse to settle for an American. Did you ever think what would happen if you hit the "jackpot" and found a "10" and married her. Mind games, other guys wooing her and - perhaps most annoying - constant questioning by friends/society about her being out of your league. My point is even if she does not care, this society cares and will drive you to divorce.
It is a big world out there, and there are TONS of hot women with a big heart who would be forever happy to share their life with an average looking average income 42 year old American shortie. They're just not in this country.
Good luck!
Posted by: esseintes | November 04, 2009 at 11:26 AM
For me, at 43, I think the issue is to figure out what you want, and what you are willing to do to get it. If all of your dating experiences led to pain and suffering previously, and you are extremely inexperienced dating women, but you definitely want a longterm relationship, you need to have a plan. The plan should include figuring out where those relationship attempts went sour, and what you need to do to fix that. If you don't desire a relationship, it's all moot.
So, to Domester: What do you want? Instead of comparing yourself to other guys, you need to take a rational approach to this, as if you yourself are a product that you are going to market to obtain your desired goal. You've spent so much time focusing on other people's success (while resenting them for it), and so much time focusing on your own failures, that your bitterness permeates the context of your question.
You have to decide what you want, and what you need to do to get from point A (where you are at right now) to point B (where you'd like to go). But, really, determining what your point B is...that's the first step.
You have to know what your goal is before you can even start to figure out how to get there. And, I don't think you're clear on the goal yet. What is it, exactly, that you want?
Posted by: trouble | November 04, 2009 at 11:41 AM
It's all in his head. I measure in at a towering 5'5". I'm realistic. I know that the ideal that a girl holds in her head for a man is someone tall, but that's not to say that all a girl will be interested in is her ideal. In fact, no matter what we say or what idealized fantasies we hold, most of us have no idea who we might find attractive.
I date women who are shorter, but more importantly, I date women who are taller. My ceiling thus far has been an amazingly intelligent and beautiful woman who came in just under 5'11", and yes, I encouraged her to wear heels... as tall as she wanted (because me strutting in with a 6'2" hottie on my arm puts the room on notice that my "swagger" is right, that I'm worthy of such a beautiful thing). I've ended up dating women from Match.com who, in the "My ideal match" section, stated they wanted someone 5'8", 5'10", etc (there were plenty of 5'0" women who stated that their ideal match was 6'0").
The point is don't assume you know what women want. Don't assume women know what women want. Don't make assumptions... just put your best self forward, pay attention to what moves her, and never ever puss out, because no woman needs another puss (and they'll sure as shit test and qualify you to make sure).
Posted by: Horace | November 04, 2009 at 11:59 AM
In fact, no matter what we say or what idealized fantasies we hold, most of us have no idea who we might find attractive.
Amen to that. I can't count how many times have I ended up dating someone who I found irresistable and charming but my like-minded girlfriends found unsuitable and unattractive. I admit it...I have absolutely no idea what I'm looking for until I happen to stumble across it. Old, young, tall, short, portly, skinny, doctor or waiter...it's all about the confidence and the chemistry.
Posted by: Redhead | November 04, 2009 at 01:12 PM
It would be helpful to know his height and/or see a picture.
Posted by: Neveragain | November 04, 2009 at 01:15 PM
I'm curious... If a million dollars landed in your lap tomorrow, would it change who you fundamentally are? How would it make you any different?
If you're a decent person now, and capable of love, would this change if you had more money? I think we all want the 'security' that a decent financial footing can provide, but there's the security of partnership and growing a life together that is appealing, too.
I know so many men who are really weathly. They're not successful in love even with the height and wealth.
Posted by: Trish | November 04, 2009 at 02:14 PM
or just accept your fate. Not everyone in this world is meant to be with someone. Men and women die alone everyday never knowing love or even sex.
Get yourself some good porn and let your mind take you where you want to be. Soon enough you wont distinguish between reality and fantasy.
Posted by: Hearsy | November 04, 2009 at 05:28 PM
Nah, it's all about your game, inside and out. It's all about being your best self. Fearlessness, not confidence. Communication, not conversation. Authenticity, not honesty. Graciousness, not niceness. Masculinity, not toughness. And most importantly, sensuality, not horniness.
10 years ago I had more hair, fewer pounds, and a "cooler" social circle, but I got fewer women, less attractive women, laid less often, and with more effort. Now I'll go phone number for phone number against any taller guy in any NYC bar.
There are "leagues," but they're not about looks. They're about "game."
Posted by: Horace | November 05, 2009 at 01:05 PM
Horace: You come across with humor, self-acceptance, and self-confidence. Height doesn't matter NEARLY as much as these things. Self confidence is sexy. Women innately sense it, and respond to it. You like yourself. You're comfortable with yourself. That makes you easy-going and low maintenance.
What's not to like?
I'm 43, 20 pounds overweight, and I'm a mom with 2 kids. These are all strikes against me. I realize this. But I LIKE me. I feel comfortable in my body, and I'm happy. I don't think that it's any accident that I'm also dating the hottest guy I've dated since college.
There are leagues, but they are about people who like themselves, and people who don't. This guy doesn't like himself, and subsequently, he doesn't like other people.
Posted by: trouble | November 05, 2009 at 03:34 PM
With respect to financail stability...as part of the Wall Street dispora, I went from years of long-term multi-six figure jobs to a year plus of unemployment. Absent making finding a new position my number one priority, and watching what I spend, does my current "financail instability" requi8re that I take myself out of the dating pool?
Posted by: John | November 06, 2009 at 07:18 PM
Trouble,
When i grow up, I want to be you. We are the same age and I am also 20lbs overweight. Men are still attracted to me, but I feel very uncomfortable in a size 12 (I am 5"7) and 38 DD boobs which get sooo much attention. LOL!! I agree that no matter my size, when I carry myself with confidence, men LOVE me. I guess I just have to keep working on being unconditionally accepting of myself.
Posted by: michelle | November 07, 2009 at 11:11 AM
One thing about the recession is that it's effecting pretty much everyone in one or more aspects of life.
So, John, if it's a serious question, no don't take yourself out of the dating pool.
Unless of course you were a ***** when you were making 6 figures. If that was the case then stay home so that me and my friends don't run into you. ;)
Kidding. And best of luck to you in your job search. Well, your love search too for that matter.
Posted by: Trish | November 08, 2009 at 09:00 PM
I'm no dating expert, but as far as finding social circles to get involved with, a good start is at meetup.com.
Seriously; there's a group for EVERYONE there.
Posted by: mrcrassic | November 08, 2009 at 09:30 PM
@Hearsy: I absolutely refuse to believe that. If some of my fellow peers in college, some of whom are EXTREMELY socially awkward and wouldn't hold a candle to half of the women discussed here, can enter happy and romantic relationships, then I truly believe that there is someone for everyone out there.
Posted by: mrcrassic | November 08, 2009 at 10:02 PM